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  1. #11
    Super Moderator gisela's Avatar
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    Many art-exhibitions have an entry fee which you have to pay to even be considered. Even if you aren't picked to exhibit you don't get the money back.

  2. #12
    Moderator Shanazel's Avatar
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    By all means, don't enter the contest if you don't like the rules. But also be aware that some contests are unethical and should be recognized as such instead of simply being passed over with a shrug.

    I think its a bit rude to ask us to audition, then charge us to learn the choregroaghy then charge people to attend the show. meanwhile we dance for no fee.
    Paying twenty bucks to enter a photograph or short story in a competition is at least straight forward. I don't enter those contests unless the entry fee is minimal and used directly to fund the awards.

    What Jameelah describes is not the usual "entry fee required" contest. The organizers are double-dipping. Not only do they have free labor for the performance which nets them door receipts but they force the performers to pay to learn the choreography, additional funds which go straight into their pockets.

    This is the sophisticated version of "but think of the great publicity and ego rush" that local organizations think is fair trade for a freebie performance. This is not an audition to appear in a professional performance as a professional in the position of "chorus line." The audition is a carrot to lure a dancer in to paying fees for classes that result in free labor for the organizer.

    Personally, I think it sounds reprehensible and I'm looking forward to hearing the rest of the story if Jameelah goes through with it.
    Last edited by Shanazel; 08-22-2012 at 12:19 AM.
    "Well, now that we have seen each other," said the unicorn " if you'll believe in me, I'll believe in you."

  3. #13
    V.I.P. Yame's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shanazel View Post
    Paying twenty bucks to enter a photograph or short story in a competition is at least straight forward. I don't enter those contests unless the entry fee is minimal and used directly to fund the awards.

    What Jameelah describes is not the usual "entry fee required" contest. The organizers are double-dipping. Not only do they have free labor for the performance which nets them door receipts but they force the performers to pay to learn the choreography, additional funds which go straight into their pockets.
    This.

    I mean, I don't think Jillina and the organizers are making a huge buck out of this, and I'm sure it costs a lot of money to pay for the costuming and the venues. However, I don't think it's right that some of the performers (the main line-up) get paid while others (the ones who auditioned) don't, and on top of not getting paid have to incur their own travel expenses and forgo on other opportunities and their job in order to be able to dedicate themselves fully to rehearsals all day for a few weeks.

    The fee to audition is fine and very common in other dances and arts. What's not fine is not paying professional performers for a professional show on a professional stage which people are paying to see.

    OTOH I do understand the motives behind entering this contest and don't fault anyone for entering as I am sure it can be a great experience for those who can afford it. It's the organizers who should know better.

    Shanazel, when BDE first came out there was a huge discussion on Bhuz about the ethics of this business model. In the end, a few participants (people who auditioned for the show and got the part) chimed in with their experiences, which were mostly positive. If you're interested I can look for the thread.

  4. #14
    Moderator Shanazel's Avatar
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    I am interested, Yame. Thank you.
    "Well, now that we have seen each other," said the unicorn " if you'll believe in me, I'll believe in you."

  5. #15
    Senior Member walladah's Avatar
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    Default I would rather pay to take part in a competition

    or an art exhibition, provided that this payment is justified by, let's say, the no-entrance fee for the audience/public.

    You cannot both charge the audience AND the dancers who perform for you to get the entrance fees by the audience!! that is too much.

    then, i prefer to participate in charities and at least receive a "thank you" at the end than pay to perform for businesses who will take all my income from my performance...

    It has happened to me recently too, i mean, a dance competition was announced as part of a festival and when i asked about the competition, they told me about the... charges, which were not mentioned on the website.

    THe funny thing is that once you buy a workshop ticket, you also buy a ticket to attend the competition. THen if you want to be part of it, you pay again...

    So, i would be performing for other people to take the audience tickets and i would pay to be a competition participant and i would pay for an audience entrance (my audience seat) while i would be a performer...

    then, i thought that for the money it will cost me to perform, it is better to do a charity performance or buy one more workshop to become a better dancer....

    what do you think?

  6. #16
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    Default I'm with Yame on this one

    Quote Originally Posted by Yame View Post
    The fee to audition is fine and very common in other dances and arts. What's not fine is not paying professional performers for a professional show on a professional stage which people are paying to see.
    You can't have it both ways.
    Audition fees- fine. There is personnel to cover and venue expenses depending on where the audition is held.

    But to award a dancer the "part" after her paid audition,
    then charge her AGAIN to be a part of the production she/he was chosen for,
    while the event holder is collecting ticket sales and
    still not paying the dancer for the skills for which she was chosen and
    the audience PAID to see.

    It stinks of greed.

    But, if a dancer believes the experience and the expense will further her belly dance career (and we hope it does) than it may be worth it for the individual dancer in the long run.

    the more dancers who participate in this performance model, the more it will continue.

    What kind of belly dance world would that look like?

    One that undervalues the dance and the dancer.

    We allll want to learn how this turns out for our beautiful auditioning belly dancer.

  7. #17
    V.I.P. Aniseteph's Avatar
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    "Dance with Bigname Dancer !!!!!" seems to be becoming a thing. I think organisers spotted a new angle to get more mileage out of the big names they hire. Not just the usual pay for a workshop or two and see the show - now there's pay for a course of lessons with someone else to learn the choreography and then get to be on stage with Big Name Dancer. I agree with Shanazel that it's a carrot, and if you think it's worth it for the experience, why not? It is what it is, and it's about the students experience, IMO.

    I don't know that I like the idea of auditioning for that. Please - if Organiser (or star) doesn't want to share the stage with a bunch of no-hopers, then it's no longer about the students, it's about their precious show. If they want quality they should pay for it. Appealing to dancers hopes/ dreams/ vanity/ egos by inviting them to audition and pay for the privilege does look like exploitation to me.

    And is it really ever much of a career boost to have been an unpaid backing dancer for BigName Dancer (who will probably dance you off the stage) at a BD event?

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