Classic-Vintage/Modern-Traditional/Modern-Fusion

Ariadne

Ariadne

Well-known member
I've been thinking lately about attempts to educate the public on the development of BD and it's different styles. For that purpose I have been trying to figure out a way to categorize the different styles and I have come up with three categories that make sense to me.
  • Classic-Vintage
  • Modern-Traditional
  • Modern-Fusion
I could use some feedback on whether those categories would make sense to the public though.

I would also like some opinions on what styles belong where. Specifically I have been wondering if the Suhaila Salimpour style belongs in the Modern Fusion category considering how much influence it has from Jazz and Modern dance? For that matter would the "Fantasy" BD movement where they try to be very theatrical and tell stories also be considered a Fusion?
 
Farasha Hanem

Farasha Hanem

New member
As far as where fantasy dance would fall, a person would have to figure out what it's fusing BD with. I haven't thought to ask before, but is fusion strictly fusing two dance styles, or can you fuse other things to a style of dance, like a theme? :think: Does Fantasy Oriental use a regular belly dance vocabulary, or does it have moves particular to that style?
 
Ariadne

Ariadne

Well-known member
You've hit on why I'm not sure what to think. It usually uses a regular dance vocabulary, which one depends on the dancer. It does have it's own esthetic though. The theatrical element is overwhelming. It's almost like watching a ballet where the music and dance is to express the story rather then the dance being an expression of the music as the focus.
 
Aniseteph

Aniseteph

New member
I think your categories work within a particular genre (e.g. ME, or American orientale, or Tribal) but aren't so much help if you are trying to cover the wider "bellydance umbrella" because you'll end up with apples and oranges in the same category.

I like a historical framework that explains the roots behind different styles, where they started, what from, how they developed, who developed them, how the music fitted in, etc. It makes it so obvious why Camellia of Cairo doesn't look like Suhaila or the Reda Troupe like FCBD, and gives you a structure to peg things on. If they can understand why pirate fantasy fusion is nothing to do with anything you'd see in the ME, that's a win IMO.:D
 
Ariadne

Ariadne

Well-known member
I can see your point.

My thought was to first give a solid explanation of the Classic-Vintage styles (including the progression of dances used in professional sets) and then as I covered each of the Modern-Traditional styles explain where each individually developed from the Classic ones. After that I thought I could then cover the Modern-Fusion since they (I think) derive from the Modern-Traditional styles rather then the Classic. Basically I wanted to create an easy to follow narration of the development based on time period as well as style. It's just how I think.

Oh, I was thinking of including information on costuming and music as well.
 
Jane

Jane

New member
Maybe a Venn diagram would be easier. Then you can show pics of dancers with a power point to show the costumes and make-up. A picture is worth a thousand words :)
 
Kashmir

Kashmir

New member
Ariadne said:
My thought was to first give a solid explanation of the Classic-Vintage styles (including the progression of dances used in professional sets)
Click to expand...
So you are only covering BD as performed in the US post WW2? No mention of other streams of belly dance? Nothing for Tahiya Karioka? Samia Gamal? Namia Akef? Souheir Zaki? Fifi Abdou? Lucy? Dina? Nadia Gamal? Nergis Mogol? Ozel Turkbas? Tülay Karaca? Princess Banu? et al? No problem if this is your focus - but I think you have to at least give a nod to the local streams.
 
Ariadne

Ariadne

Well-known member
Actually I was planning to cover the dance scene in Egypt during the golden era as well as it's development in the US on both the East and West coast. Then under Modern Traditional cover the more individual styles as found in Egypt, Lebanon, and Turkey since then.

Leave out "Tahiya Karioka, Samia Gamal, Namia Akef, Souheir Zaki, Fifi Abdou, Lucy, Dina, Nadia Gamal, Nergis Mogol, Ozel Turkbas, Tülay Karaca, Princess Banu, et?" Bite your tongue. How could you possibly describe the currant modern styles and leave out their influences?

I am starting to realize how large a task I have given myself however...

Hence why I'm trying to start with an outline so I can take it one small bite at a time.

Jane said:
Maybe a Venn diagram would be easier. Then you can show pics of dancers with a power point to show the costumes and make-up. A picture is worth a thousand words :)
Click to expand...
A Venn diagram scares me just a little but I like your idea of a power point presentation for the history of the individual styles like Aniseteph was talking about. :think: I could do both a development narration for those who want the whole picture with individual visual presentations for each. Hmmmmm....
 
Aniseteph

Aniseteph

New member
There's already a Venn-type diagram out there on Bhuz somewhere that gets a mention every now and then.

"Separate streams" is a great way of putting it.

Vintage Egyptian and Turkish seeds vintage AmCab (apologies for sweeping generalisations and names that some object to but I'm off to Zumba in 5), but that's what, 50's, 60's? Where does that leave 70's and 80's Egyptian that is different to the modern style but different again to classic AmCab, and a million miles from what ATS was starting? It's hard to get your head round unless you know there are streams.
 
bomu samba

bomu samba

New member
Aniseteph said:
There's already a Venn-type diagram out there on Bhuz somewhere that gets a mention every now and then.
Click to expand...

Is it this one by Nadira?



Wow - looking at this I have sooooooo much more to learn...
 
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Aniseteph

Aniseteph

New member
That's the one! thanks Bomu Samba. :cool:

It's not as complicated as it looks if you start on the right and track developments towards the left (just remember the ME roots and it all makes sense - ta daaa!!!).

And remember that each area is going to have it's own past present and future as well... 3D diagram anyone? ;) And that it's not unevolved on the right and evolved on the left.
 
Ariadne

Ariadne

Well-known member
That diagram is one of my favorites and why I doubt I can make one. It's not like I can improve on it.


Ok, after talking about it with my husband last night I think my plan of attack is to create an interactive timeline under the Classic-Vintage section. (He showed me an app that will let me plug in both images and video.) On it I will list important people, places, music, and film. That will let me cover not only the earliest information and put it in context to it's time period but the introduction of BD dance to various countries, by whom, and when, also in context. Then I will create separate basic biographies on key people with links to scholarly articles about them and videos. I also want to have a separate outline of the different types of progressions used in clubs with a description and video examples of each section.

Then in the Modern-Traditional and Modern-Fusion sections I will cover the history of each of the individual styles and create a visual presentation of its development history as well as videos of performances in that style. That way you can see their development including the gap from the end of the timeline in the Classic-Vintage section to the present.

So the first question is when do I end the Classic-Vintage timeline? What is the break point between the Classic styles and when the Modern styles began development, when they separated?

[edit]Second question. Do I list the currant musicians, music sources, under the styles they provide music for or do I give them their own page?
 
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Sophia Maria

Sophia Maria

New member
bomu samba said:
I'm enough of a geek to want to try and make that 3D diagram as I'm learning!
Click to expand...

Haha! I had the exact same thought! Maybe the next time I have a break from school. I seriously need to brush up on my history. I'm solid on knowing all the various styles of today and their evolution over the past 30 years maybe, but my history beyond that is pretty lacking. I know the famous names and am somewhat familiar with their work, but as far as knowing enough to make a 3d graph goes...
 
Ariadne

Ariadne

Well-known member
Can anyone tell me who these dancers are and where the photo's are from? I remember getting them on this forum when I threw them into my inspiration folder but I can't remember anything else.
 
Amulya

Amulya

Moderator
Speaking of Suhaila Salimpour: she has done several styles over time! Very hard to pinpoint what is what. When she was really young she did a much more Egyptian style, later when she had her troupe it became very different but I'm not sure what to categorise it as. And lately it's definitely modern, but what kind of modern? Where does it fit in?

Btw we have a local troupe here that calls what they do 'contemporary belly dance' a term that I would use for everything fusion, but not sure what they use it for.
 
Amulya

Amulya

Moderator
If someone is going to make a diagram, where would each country with their own specific branches fit into: like the Russian dancers are different from the American ones etc. Most western countries seem to have put some sort of their own flavour to it, some more than others.
We need pictures and YouTube references too :D
 
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