Veils?

[khanjar]

Okay, it seems the class is into veils now and so we are learning a veil choreography and so I need a veil, so I wish to ask how big and what material?

But I am just joining the choreo after being away for a few weeks and so last class I spent more time wearing the thing instead of deftly manipulating it into a seamless spectacle as wrapping it around my head I was good at and veils that's all I need, a big flag to show how useless I am at upper body movement, as sure the lower half stuff, no problem, but doing stuff with the upper half at the same time really challenges my dyspraxia issues, but I will get there at some point.

 

[Ariadne]

Standard for beginners is 5mm silk 45"x108". You can just buy 3 yrds off a bolt and roll the raw edges.

 

[mahsati_janan]

Veils are generally 2.5 to 4 yards of flowing material with 3 yards considered standard. This can be lightweight silk, chiffon, organza, or other flowing fabric. Different materials will give different effects and work best for different uses. There are rectangle, rounded rectangle, half circle and 3/4 circle veils. They can have weighted or unweighted edges depending on need. Width of the veil also varies, but 36, 45, and 60 inches are common measurements depending on veil type

I would recommend talking with your instructor to find the best veil for this choreography.

 

[Zorba]

Veils are generally 2.5 to 4 yards of flowing material with 3 yards considered standard. This can be lightweight silk, chiffon, organza, or other flowing fabric. Different materials will give different effects and work best for different uses. There are rectangle, rounded rectangle, half circle and 3/4 circle veils. They can have weighted or unweighted edges depending on need. Width of the veil also varies, but 36, 45, and 60 inches are common measurements depending on veil type

I would recommend talking with your instructor to find the best veil for this choreography.

This.

Do ask the instructor as she probably has a particular type in mind.

In absence of any other guidance, I recommend either an 8mm silk (I love 5mm, but it can be VERY frustrating!) - or an Organza. Organza usually needs to have the cr@p beat out of it in the washing machine a couple or 3 times before it will flow right. In any event, no larger than 3 yards for your first.

Welcome to veilwork! Its the most fun you can have with your clothes on!

So You Want to be a Veil Dancer, Huh?

 

[Kashmir]

Check with your teacher because the standard in New Zealand is 120cm chiffon 2.5-3m long (length depends on student - most of my beginners' first veils are 2.5m). Straight off the roll. Hem both ends.

Having a student with a silk veil would look very different in a student troupe because if moves very differently. Also, the type of moves I normally put in beginner veil would not work well with a light silk. Also check if there colour guidelines - they may be a simple as a solid jewel colour or they may be a specific colour.

 

[SidraK]

Also, if the veils need to match...if one person washes their veil, then everyone needs to. The same fabric will move very differently if the sizing has been washed out.

(voice of experience ;-) )

 

[Daimona]

Okay, it seems the class is into veils now and so we are learning a veil choreography and so I need a veil, so I wish to ask how big and what material?

For material, see the previous answers (shortly: check what the rest of your classmates and the teacher are using). Not all fabrics are suited for all types of veil work.

As for veil, how big it should be depends on your size (mainly your height or arm length) and your preferred style/preferations (some prefer really big veils, other smaller veils, some moves are better to do with a larger veil, or half circle veil etc).

To quote one of my first posts on this forum:

I use this rule of thumb when buying georgette/chiffon for my rectangular veils:
Width/height: Somewhere between 0.9 m and 1.3 m wide.
Length: App. 30-40 cm more than your height.

The veil should also be wide enough to cover the butt, i.e. the distance from the top of your shoulders to the bottom of your butt. If the veil is wider than the distance from the top of your shoulders to below your knees, it would be more difficult to dance with for an inexperienced dancer.

Tips: If the fabric is 1.5m wide, cutting off app. 40 cm would give a nice piece for a matching scarf to tie around your hips or your hair. I've even decorated some of these scarfs with beads to match some of my costumes.

When the veil is app. 30-40 cm longer than your height (or distance between your fingertips), it is still easy to work with without stepping on the corners.

Edit: Your height + 30-40 cm is ok for your standard Egyptian veil work, but this may be too short if you are doing American style cabaret wrapping yourself in the veils etc. Then I'd say add at least 1 m to your height.

 

[Ariadne]

I would recommend talking with your instructor to find the best veil for this choreography.

This.

Do ask the instructor as she probably has a particular type in mind.

Good advice. I can't believe I forgot that, my mistake.

or an Organza. Organza usually needs to have the cr@p beat out of it in the washing machine a couple or 3 times before it will flow right.

I have to ask though. I made an organza veil based on your recommendation but evidently I don't know how to beat it enough. Any suggestions?

 

[Zorba]

I have to ask though. I made an organza veil based on your recommendation but evidently I don't know how to beat it enough. Any suggestions?

Make sure its an organza, not a tulle!

Have you run it through the washing machine several times?

 

[khanjar]

Well, I have sent a message to my teacher asking for advice, but no reply yet, but I can move quickly on this as there is a shop in the town that sells organza quite cheaply it being in the covered open market where cash is king.

But veil I am sort of new to it, i did do a workshop on it a few years ago, but I never got the grasp of it and so in class now I am just as hopeless, but I have to focus on it if I am to master it. My biggest problem in class last week was the basic movement of switching the thing up at the back so it wraps around the arms, it kept getting caught on my butt and going nowhere, then it was switching the thing from one side of the body to the other where I couldn't work out how to do it and kept getting my arms behind my head where they would go nowhere. So the choreography I was laughing my head off all the way through it. The lower movements, no problem it's just part B, what to do with the arms that I struggle with now.

But I will get there.... eventually.

 

[Amulya]

Make sure its an organza, not a tulle!

I made that mistake once....

Yes organza is great, I got heaps of half circular organza ones

 

[Darshiva]

But veil I am sort of new to it, i did do a workshop on it a few years ago, but I never got the grasp of it and so in class now I am just as hopeless, but I have to focus on it if I am to master it. My biggest problem in class last week was the basic movement of switching the thing up at the back so it wraps around the arms, it kept getting caught on my butt and going nowhere, then it was switching the thing from one side of the body to the other where I couldn't work out how to do it and kept getting my arms behind my head where they would go nowhere. So the choreography I was laughing my head off all the way through it. The lower movements, no problem it's just part B, what to do with the arms that I struggle with now.

But I will get there.... eventually.

May I suggest that you practice without the veil (miming exactly all of the veil movements) and once you are very confident with it, start practicing with the veil. That way you learn the choreography without the stress of learning veil at the same time.

Also, ask your teacher to cover the moves you are unsure of. That's what you're paying her for!

 

[Zorba]

But I will get there.... eventually.

Of course you will - every veil dancer on the planet has gone through what you're going through right now - entirely normal. Glad you can see the humor in the whole thing - you'll go far...

 

[Jane]

Are you guys talking about silk organza? That stuff is super stiff and I don't know how it could be used for veils :think:

 

[mahsati_janan]

Are you guys talking about silk organza? That stuff is super stiff and I don't know how it could be used for veils :think:

It really depends on the specific fabric and use, but there are organzas that work nicely for veils. I have a couple of silk organzas and a couple of unidentified organzas that I use on occasion. They were initially more stiff, but eased into a better flow. Dahlal has some here: Half Circle Organza Veil for Belly Dance - Dahlal Internationale Store

 

[Kashmir]

But veil I am sort of new to it, i did do a workshop on it a few years ago, but I never got the grasp of it and so in class now I am just as hopeless, but I have to focus on it if I am to master it. My biggest problem in class last week was the basic movement of switching the thing up at the back so it wraps around the arms, it kept getting caught on my butt and going nowhere, then it was switching the thing from one side of the body to the other where I couldn't work out how to do it and kept getting my arms behind my head where they would go nowhere. So the choreography I was laughing my head off all the way through it. The lower movements, no problem it's just part B, what to do with the arms that I struggle with now.

Is it just you? I do several classes on plain technique before even considering doing a choreography. Same as any dance: technique - combinations - sequences. Then once the class has an idea of the shape of the dance we drill individual moves. Lots.

With veil I am even more likely to stop and do individual critiques at the end (or in the middle of) the drill. This is because people cannot see what they are doing - but I can say "X, your hand is drooping - lift it up (Y, you do the same) - now try again" People watch and learn from others' mistakes.

 

[Aniseteph]

...switching the thing up at the back so it wraps around the arms, it kept getting caught on my butt and going nowhere, then it was switching the thing from one side of the body to the other where I couldn't work out how to do it and kept getting my arms behind my head where they would go nowhere.

Poly chiffon is quite friendly for the flip round the arms move and slips over other fabrics OK, though not so much on a super-dangly hip scarf. I heard somewhere that silk sticks to velvet/velour but don't know if it's true.

I can totally relate to getting stuck in a veil. When I'm learning, if it works it just works, but if it doesn't it is baffling trying to pin down why I'm in a knot or have got a twist in my veil but no one else has. . Then either it suddenly starts working (how??!!) or I have to pull the move to bits to see how it works.

Zorba is right, you have to laugh. Especially when you see yourself in the mirror and it looks like you are putting a duvet cover on the washing line.

 

[Ariadne]

Make sure its an organza, not a tulle!

Have you run it through the washing machine several times?

It's organza and I've washed it twice now. Do I just need to wash it a time or two more?

 

[khanjar]

Poly chiffon is quite friendly for the flip round the arms move and slips over other fabrics OK, though not so much on a super-dangly hip scarf. I heard somewhere that silk sticks to velvet/velour but don't know if it's true.

I can totally relate to getting stuck in a veil. When I'm learning, if it works it just works, but if it doesn't it is baffling trying to pin down why I'm in a knot or have got a twist in my veil but no one else has. . Then either it suddenly starts working (how??!!) or I have to pull the move to bits to see how it works.

Zorba is right, you have to laugh. Especially when you see yourself in the mirror and it looks like you are putting a duvet cover on the washing line.

Yes, that is the mental picture I got but with me it was trying to put the duvet cover on the duvet where I go inside the cover with the duvet to get it into the corners, but luckily no mirrors with this class or I would be laughing more.

May I suggest that you practice without the veil (miming exactly all of the veil movements) and once you are very confident with it, start practicing with the veil. That way you learn the choreography without the stress of learning veil at the same time.

Also, ask your teacher to cover the moves you are unsure of. That's what you're paying her for!

My problem is I am directionally stupid I have to follow the instructor behind them to get the movement right and in that learning process I have to visually look where my arms are as I don't have the intuition to know where they are and I am also slow in learning, which is an annoyance for the rest of the group I understand, especially as I missed the three hour long workshop on the basic veil and the two weekly lessons before last week. So I am coming at it late but I am determined as I am not going to let the veil beat me again, (I did a couple of years back), now I have more or less sorted out the natural use of the lower body movements.

And though I was reluctant in the past, I will after I have the veil sorted out have a go at the wings and see what damage I can do with them.

 

[Zorba]

It's organza and I've washed it twice now. Do I just need to wash it a time or two more?

Hit it a few more times! If it still doesn't work, then I'm guessing that particular organza isn't tameable...