losing my shimmy

[Ahava_Melantha]

anyone have any advice for losing my shimmy?

l knees don't want to bend and straighten CONSISTENTLY! I am losing it and my left leg is super weak for a one legged shimmy. you can barely see it.

and forget about vibration shimmies. omg!

any ideas for these ones?

 

[Kashmir]

The most common reason I see with my students is muscle fatigue. They start well but quickly lose it. Their muscles tire. You need to do a little at least every couple of days. Time yourself. Can you do 60s of consistent shimmy? 2 minutes? 5 minutes? Push yourself to increase your fitness but don't over do it.

Otherwise, same old same old. Practice slowly. Speed it up. STOP when you lose concentration or the smoothness (don't practice while occupied with other stuff). Then either restart immediately or practice something else for a few minutes. Even micro-stop eg level change or change the layered isolation - or even just do one figure eight.

Also consider learning to use your lateral flexors to do the shimmy.

 

[Bellydance Oz]

same old same old. Practice slowly. Speed it up. STOP when you lose concentration or the smoothness (don't practice while occupied with other stuff). Then either restart immediately or practice something else for a few minutes. Even micro-stop eg level change or change the layered isolation - or even just do one figure eight.

I wish practice would help me, but I think my problem is slightly different. When I first started belly dancing, I was complimented on my "great shimmy". As I gain more experience, my shimmy gets worse and worse. When I started, I had no idea how to shimmy - I just did it. Now, I think I know too much and I don't know how to shake off the knowledge and go back to being instinctive!

Also consider learning to use your lateral flexors to do the shimmy.

I'd love to know more about what this means...

 

[khanjar]

Ah, I think you might have got what I am experiencing, the situation where one is aware things are not as they were when you started, a sort of feeling what you are doing has become sloppy or diminished in some way there necessitating yourself to think to go back and start again and it's hard to reverse through a gained muscle memory.

A few of us in our class have the idea to request a basics session, where we may go over and refine stuff that has become sloppy, where it is hoped the teacher can unpick the sloppiness if the teacher agrees we have become sloppy as it might just be our perception

But could it be the sloppiness is perceived in that it has become easier to do through developing a muscle memory ?

But I practice at home in the kitchen when I am cooking just slow movement to build muscles and refine the movement in slow form, but turbo shimmies don't feel as they used to, so it sets up a worry am I doing it right, but there has been no complaints from my teacher, so I wonder.

 

[Kashmir]

I wish practice would help me, but I think my problem is slightly different. When I first started belly dancing, I was complimented on my "great shimmy". As I gain more experience, my shimmy gets worse and worse. When I started, I had no idea how to shimmy - I just did it. Now, I think I know too much and I don't know how to shake off the knowledge and go back to being instinctive!

Could be people were being encouraging. You could move it so they said "bravo" - but it may not be the shimmy you need or want now.

But it is also possible you are thinking too much now. Shimmy really needs to be handed over to the part of the brain that does automatic, repetitive movements. The slow practice etc has two main aims to teach you how to move correctly then build up stamina. Realxing is usually the hard bit.

[using lateral flexors]
I'd love to know more about what this means...

Instead of driving your up/down shimmy by bending and straightening your legs you contract and release your waist with your obliques and quadratus lumborum (which connects your ribs to your pelvis at the back). Personally I can go much longer in that mode. (And yes your kness do bend and straighten but they are more relaxed)

 

[Yame]

The problem for a lot of people isn't so much the lack of strength or even endurance, but the lack of speed and coordination. It's hard to alternately bend and straighten each leg consistently for a while.

Even if your legs aren't getting tired, they might be unable to continue because if you can't maintain the speed and one leg (or both) starts to stall, the whole thing falls apart. It's just a matter of practice. Daily practice... making sure you keep the size and pace of the shimmy very steady.

If you get stuck you need to slow down and build up to the speed where you can maintain the shimmy without getting stuck. It's better to slow down than to lose the shimmy or get stuck.

If one of your legs is better able to maintain a one-legged shimmy, practice the other leg a bit longer to compensate, until they are more equal. The more balanced your shimmy is, the better able you will be to keep your timing and maintain consistency.

 

[Bellydance Oz]

But it is also possible you are thinking too much now. Shimmy really needs to be handed over to the part of the brain that does automatic, repetitive movements. The slow practice etc has two main aims to teach you how to move correctly then build up stamina. Realxing is usually the hard bit.

Instead of driving your up/down shimmy by bending and straightening your legs you contract and release your waist with your obliques and quadratus lumborum (which connects your ribs to your pelvis at the back). Personally I can go much longer in that mode. (And yes your kness do bend and straighten but they are more relaxed)

Thanks - yes, my problem is definitely that I'm thinking too much now. My shimmy hasn't become sloppy, it's become stiff!

I think I used to do my shimmy using my obliques more, because my previous training was in jazz where you use your obliques in isolations. Unfortunately I wasn't really aware where the move was coming from, so I can't be certain!

 

[Ahava_Melantha]

okay, I think I have all the above problems.
problems with muscle fatigue

consistency of bending my knees,

overthinnking it

and i still have no idea how to shimmy with my obliques. is that the same as hip twist shimmy?

 

[SeeJaneDance]

My shimmy started getting sloppy, and it was never super strong in the sense of doing it for an extended time...in addition to practicing more (and while my mind was occupied on other tasks like cooking or washing my face), I also practiced a 3/4 shimmy, with the accent varying between all three positions (UP, down, out; OUT, up, down; and DOWN, out, up) also helped, because it's, for me at least, a more oblique driven shimmy. It helped me learn how to engage those muscles better, and apply them to my 4/4 shimmy.

 

[Ahava_Melantha]

so . . . 3/4 shimmys are oblique driven and egyptian shimmys are knee driven?

 

[Kashmir]

and i still have no idea how to shimmy with my obliques. is that the same as hip twist shimmy?

No - the hips still go up and down - not forward and back. Think of contracting on one side of your waist - pull the hip into your armpit. It is exactly the same as when you lean to teh side - only your torso is fixed rather than your legs.

so . . . 3/4 shimmys are oblique driven and egyptian shimmys are knee driven?

You can do the 3/4 with your obliques or with your legs. Personally I find obliques and QLs are better if you are walking with it.

There is no "knee driven" shimmy. The "modern" Egyptian shimmy is driven with the quads - forward and back like a small hip twist shimmy. There is also a shimmy that is generated by bending and straightening your legs (ie quads and hamstrings).

 

[Ahava_Melantha]

okay still not picturing it. I'm more of a visual learner. do you know of any dvd/youtube video showing all these differences?

 

[Ahava_Melantha]

Shimmy in 60 BellyDancingDiva 'Azraa - YouTube

 

[Yame]

There is no "knee driven" shimmy. The "modern" Egyptian shimmy is driven with the quads - forward and back like a small hip twist shimmy. There is also a shimmy that is generated by bending and straightening your legs (ie quads and hamstrings).

I wouldn't say the modern Egyptian shimmy is like a small hip twist shimmy. I think it's important to clarify that a hip twist shimmy is driven in a completely different way.

The "modern Egyptian" shimmy is also a shimmy generated by bending and straightening of the legs. However, because it is done in a very lifted and straightened posture and the weight falls more towards the front of the feet as opposed to the heels or the middle, the effect will not show as an up-and-down motion as would happen with a shimmy driven the exact same way but done with a slight bend in the knees, pelvis more tucked, and weight distributed more evenly throughout the feet.

Instead, the effect will be visible on the belly as a tiny back-and-forth, but that back-and-forth is not the same as what would happen if you were just doing a very fast hip twist shimmy.
Oh also, to achieve the fullest effect of the modern Egyptian shimmy it helps to think of the accent as being the straightening of the leg as opposed to the bending or having the straightening and the bending be equal.

Long story short, you can actually generate different types of shimmies using the same technique. When you change your weight placement and posture and change the accent, the shimmy changes. You can also change the shimmy by changing the speed and/or changing the muscle resistance (relaxing all your muscles that aren't working will create bigger, more relaxed shimmies, vs. clenching all the muscles which will create small, tight, freeze-like shimmies).

 

[Ahava_Melantha]

in case anyone was wondering, when I said "knee-driven" I meant bending and straightening the legs.

yame - I deeply appreciate your input. thats really helpful. I will have to experiment in front of my bathroom mirror

another thing I didn't even think about is in ranya Renees baladi set, she says loose calves help make a better shimmy. I have VERY tight calves so that might be part of it too. will have to start taking magnesium for my calves cuz no amount of stretching will loosen them up.

thanx so much.

 

[bomu samba]

Yame this is a really helpful post. I tried different weight placement and posture and could really see the differences you were talking about!

 

[Kashmir]

I have VERY tight calves so that might be part of it too. will have to start taking magnesium for my calves cuz no amount of stretching will loosen them up.

But have you been doing the stretch correctly? ie after a warmup, stretching the leg that is not weight bearing and with correct foot alignment?

That said, I suspect the comment is about relaxing your calves rather than having good range of motion.

 

[Ahava_Melantha]

yeah its about relaxing them. I have since realized the problem with my shimmies is tightness of my calves and the consistency of going back and forth. so my new goal is going to be - a 10 min shimmy drill every day with a calf stretch afterwards.

god willing that will help.