Tattoo on the stomach... Offensive?

[ilovemusic48]

So, I'm pretty new to belly dancing, I've only danced for a year. But, I love it, and definitely want to continue as long as I can. I don't plan on being a professional, but I am considering dancing at restaurants/weddings in a few years once I get better. Maybe even teaching. I'm not 100% sure where I'll end up with it, but I don't want to ever stop Anyway, I am considering getting a tattoo on my hip bone that would be visible with a bedlah. I wanted to get a phoenix feather with the words "Forever beautiful. Forever free." in Arabic because the phoenix is the symbol of recovery and the words in Arabic because belly dancing is what made me recover from anorexia (which I had for years and almost died from when I was 16 from cardiac arrest, ouch.) But, I don't know if people find visible tattoos offensive or if I'll run into trouble with it. I already have a tattoo on my ankle and on my foot, so I don't want more on my legs. And with my career, I can't have them on my neck/ear/arms, so that really leaves my stomach area. And I'm trying to cover a scar on my hip bone where I carved the word "fat" into :/ (I was a stupid teenager...) Anyone have experience with visible tattoos? Will I be ok getting one there?

 

[Darshiva]

If it's good enough for some of the biggest names in bellydance (for example: Michelle Joyce) to have visible tattoos, it's going to be fine for you.

Yes, it will get in the way of jobs - as will being tall, short, fat, thin, curvy, slender, blonde, brunette, red haired, tan, pale... I think you get the idea. Every client has their own idea of what a bellydancer should be and no one dancer can meet every client's criteria. So don't worry about it. Get the tattoo. Just get it proofread by someone actually fluent in arabic first.

 

[Mosaic]

So glad you recovered from anorexia & it is lovely to know that bellydance helped you in your recovery. Get that tattoo, and wear it proudly. But as Darshiva said do get someone to proof read the Arabic before setting it to skin.
~Mosaic

 

[Nejmeh]

Congratulions on your recovery, thats an awful disease!
Get that tattoo, their are plenty other bellydancers with you(I`ll get one all across the side of my torso when I`m done designing it) Remember that in previous times arab women wore tattoos, so it is not that out of place

On the tatt itself, do check up on the text itself and look if you can tattoo over your scar. If that`s difficult, wait, or make it a white tattoo, that way you can blend your scars in(a friend of mine did that with a cut up foot, looks gorgeous now!)

 

[Zorba]

"Offensive"?!? GRRRRRRR!

People generally CHOOSE to be "offended" - which makes their offense THEIR problem, not yours. By all means get the tattoo if you want it - as others have already pointed out, there are MANY tattooed Belly Dancers. In my neck of the woods, there are probably more with than without.

 

[Kashmir]

Yes, but how does that effect you? Many people over 40 still associate it with gangs, criminals and sailors - but most people under 40 are pretty relaxed about it in some societies. (I believe it is still generally considered bad taste in Arabic and Japanese society) So, in some places you will not get belly dance work - but in others it will make no difference. In Japan, it might effect your chance of working in the public service - but are you based in Japan?

Also consider whether you will want it in 10, 20 years - and what it might look like. A friend had a full back tattoo - then her life changed and she decided it wasn't her. Getting it removed was extremely expensive and very painful.

 

[Zorba]

Yes, but how does that effect you? Many people over 40 still associate it with gangs, criminals and sailors - but most people under 40 are pretty relaxed about it in some societies. (I believe it is still generally considered bad taste in Arabic and Japanese society) So, in some places you will not get belly dance work - but in others it will make no difference. In Japan, it might effect your chance of working in the public service - but are you based in Japan?

There are consequences for EVERY action you take in life. Some/many/most of these aren't "right", but there's little a person can do. So I made my choice, and I live with the consequences. That's all anyone can do. There are plenty of consequences for a male who wears long hair, skirts, long dangle earrings and other jewelry, painted fingernails, has a "tramp stamp" and Belly Dances. Fortunately, in my case, most of the negativity doesn't affect me. Anyone who doesn't like it - tough cookies! I'm in a fortunate position that those who have economic control over me have a high ethical standard.

Also consider whether you will want it in 10, 20 years - and what it might look like. A friend had a full back tattoo - then her life changed and she decided it wasn't her. Getting it removed was extremely expensive and very painful.

Which is why I waited until my 50th to get one. It'll probably still look "ok" at 85, and if it doesn't - I won't care much beyond that point - I'm seeing the "end of the runway" up ahead in the distance...

 

[khanjar]

Rachel Brice's Stomach tattoo and in Sanskrit but knows what it means her being an ex Yoga teacher

Your body, it belongs to you, adorn it as you wish, but think about it long and hard first and make sure it is what you want.


Years ago I designed a continuous spiral arm band tattoo and I thought about it for years, but never had it done and thinking about it now I am glad I didn't, mind part of the reason it was never done was because no tattoo artist would do it through them saying it sends their eyes screwy and so could not guarantee it would look right as yes I did design it as an optical illusion. Then came the scorpio design and I have still not had a tattoo, but piercings, I seem to have developed a liking for them and so navel piercing next.

 

[AndreaSTL]

Hooray for your recovery! :dance: :clap:

You may indeed lose some jobs because of your tattoo, but if it's important to you then go get it. Heck, you can always wear a dress to dance in.

 

[Zumarrad]

I think saying people "choose" to be offended is like saying people choose to be bruised when somebody punches them in the face - it's not that simple, except perhaps for people with blunted feelings and/or a high degree of social power.

Where I live, having big, visible tattoos all over your person is par for the course if you are under 30, but they may still prevent you working in certain public roles other than hipster barista/bar staff if they can't be covered with long sleeves and/or a high neck. Ultimately having a tattoo anywhere is your choice, and one on the belly area is not going to affect your life except, possibly, as a bellydancer. Depending on the tastes of your region etc, the kind of tattoo you have, how large it is and how it looks on you from a commercial perspective will affect some potential dance employers. But it is your choice to have it and have it you should, if it's what you want.

I don't think people are generally "offended" by tattoos, unless they're something like a swastika on your face or a picture of a woman/sugar skull that bears a remarkable resemblance to the ex-girlfriend you beat up on your neck. They at worst find them distasteful to look at, but there are some beautiful tattoos out there now.

Be really careful with the Arabic. You could end up with a letter wrong and inadvertently have a Koranic verse on yourself and that would go down, as they say here, like a cup of cold sick.

 

[Munniko]

(I believe it is still generally considered bad taste in Arabic and Japanese society) So, in some places you will not get belly dance work - but in others it will make no difference. In Japan, it might effect your chance of working in the public service - but are you based in Japan?

This also applies to Korea and a good portion of Asia, just because they have extremely close ties with criminal organizations. I know that just being a teacher in Korea, you could not have any visible tattoos or facial piercings to be hired and if you had a hidden tattoo you weren't allowed in some more traditional or family oriented public bath houses.

I definitely support getting a tattoo that has deep meaning to you, but definitely get your writing checked and if at all possible have an Arabic speaking friend come with you to get it so they can double check the tattoo artist has copied it right. I'm not very familiar with Arabic, but I know that one misplaced dot is all it takes in Japanese, Chinese, or Korean to completely change what your tattoo says.

 

[Zorba]

I think saying people "choose" to be offended is like saying people choose to be bruised when somebody punches them in the face - it's not that simple, except perhaps for people with blunted feelings and/or a high degree of social power.

Sure its that simple. If someone's "offended" by, say, my choice to have a tattoo - its THEIR choice, and THEIR problem - not mine. If someone's "offended" by my choice of religion, or political party, or my opinion on something - that too is THEIR choice, THEIR problem.

Now, OTOH, if I say something like "Zum, you are a ********, a ******, and a ******", then that's MY fault, and you have every right to be hurt or offended.

But actually, Zum you're one of the good ones.

 

[Zumarrad]

But there ARE subtleties. I'm not talking tattoos specifically. For instance, I'm really glad to see you've finally stopped using that rapey term for Facebook, Zorba, even if you don't understand why many people, especially women, find it painful to see. A LOT of women (and quite a few men) have been subject to sexual violence - I would go so far as to say most, to some degree or other - and if they haven't, they have friends or sisters or daughters or mothers who have. Is it THEIR fault if the use of certain terminology, not intended to be hurtful, offends them? No, I don't think it is. Is it their fault if, when the hurtfulness of the term is explained, the perpetrator continues to do it because THEY don't see anything wrong with it? No, I don't think it is.

 

[Kashmir]

Sure its that simple. If someone's "offended" by, say, my choice to have a tattoo - its THEIR choice, and THEIR problem - not mine.

Although there are people who are offended by tattoos - even ones that are not obscene, racist etc, there is a far more subtle effect at play. Not whethe r people are offended but how it affects how they interact with you. So you may not be offended by a full face moko - but you may not hire the guy to work in your home (the assumption being he has gang connections). You may not be offended by your son's girlsfriend's tattoo but you may not wish him to get serious with her (assumption - white trash or worse). Whether these assumptions are fair or not is not the issue. It effects how people judge who you are - and unlike hair style and clothes, tattoos are permanent.

Most people do not have the luxury of having skills and financial backing that allows them to call the tune. For 90% of people they have to take what is on offer. Nobody would dismiss a potential employer as having a problem if they opted for an applicant that didn't smell, or wasn't obnoxious, or wasn't dressed in a way that might lose them business. Rather, people would tell the applicant to shape up to get in the door. Fair or not, in some jobs tats are a liability - and in some a lack of ink would count against you. If you want work that is your problem - not the employers' (especially in a time of high unemployment).

 

[Farasha Hanem]

W-wait..."rapey term for Facebook"????? oO;;; I don't understand.

Sorry for getting a bit off-topic---I apparently live under a rock.

 

[khanjar]

W-wait..."rapey term for Facebook"????? oO;;; I don't understand.

--I apparently live under a rock.

So do I Farasha, so you are not alone in that, I just don't seem to understand a lot of the nouveau parlance out there and regularly slip up.

 

[Zorba]

Although there are people who are offended by tattoos - even ones that are not obscene, racist etc, there is a far more subtle effect at play. Not whether people are offended but how it affects how they interact with you. So you may not be offended by a full face moko - but you may not hire the guy to work in your home (the assumption being he has gang connections). You may not be offended by your son's girlsfriend's tattoo but you may not wish him to get serious with her (assumption - white trash or worse). Whether these assumptions are fair or not is not the issue. It effects how people judge who you are - and unlike hair style and clothes, tattoos are permanent.

Yes, I do agree (leaving aside the rightness or wrongness of it). Every decision one makes has consequences. Not to get into yet another semantic argument - but the term here is "offended", not "dislike". I see/hear/read stuff every day that I "dislike" - but I'm not "offended" by same. So I think you and I are saying the same thing....

Most people do not have the luxury of having skills and financial backing that allows them to call the tune. For 90% of people they have to take what is on offer. Nobody would dismiss a potential employer as having a problem if they opted for an applicant that didn't smell, or wasn't obnoxious, or wasn't dressed in a way that might lose them business. Rather, people would tell the applicant to shape up to get in the door. Fair or not, in some jobs tats are a liability - and in some a lack of ink would count against you. If you want work that is your problem - not the employers' (especially in a time of high unemployment).

This too is true. Not necessarily right, but true. I am in a fortunate position.

 

[Zorba]

But there ARE subtleties. I'm not talking tattoos specifically. For instance, I'm really glad to see you've finally stopped using that rapey term for Facebook, Zorba, even if you don't understand why many people, especially women, find it painful to see. A LOT of women (and quite a few men) have been subject to sexual violence - I would go so far as to say most, to some degree or other - and if they haven't, they have friends or sisters or daughters or mothers who have. Is it THEIR fault if the use of certain terminology, not intended to be hurtful, offends them? No, I don't think it is. Is it their fault if, when the hurtfulness of the term is explained, the perpetrator continues to do it because THEY don't see anything wrong with it? No, I don't think it is.

To a point, I agree. But beyond "that point", it starts being ridiculous. Life isn't fair. Some people need to grow up a bit.

 

[khanjar]

I think for us all to be safe and non offensive governments should compile lists of currently offensive words and terms and supply them to the populace so we all know where we stand and so we can choose to be offensive or not, as without there will always be something to offend someone and cause ill feeling even when it was not intended. Who knows, the time may even come when we simply don't say anything to each other so as not to offend, because sometimes it comes across as that, people wary of what they say may be misconstrued and so choose to say nothing.

Who decides what is an offensive word/term and what is not and why are such terms continuously evolving ?

 

[Kashmir]

Who decides what is an offensive word/term and what is not and why are such terms continuously evolving ?

I believe in NZ there are only three words which are not allowed on National radio (by committee). This amazes some of my older friends who can remember the shock of first hearing "bastard" on the air.