Copying other dancers choreographies from videos

Kiraze

New member
I remember some heated discussion about some Russian dancers dancing exactly the same choreography than some American dancer did... Now it seems that Turkish superstar Didem is doing the same without any hesitation and for sure without giving any credits to the original dancers or choreographers.

Worst example was her dancing a pathetic copy of Amar Gamal´s Wings of Isis at New Year show and previously she has already copied dances from e.g. Jillina, Rachel Brice, Tamalyn Dallal (she seems to have Bellydance Superstars video :mad:) and also several Bollywood movies.

Ok copying can be thought to be a form of flattery but at least I am pissed that many idiots at e.g. YouTube praise Didem´s originality and nice moves when in fact they have been done before and usually even better. My appreciation for Didem is now close to zero because of this but should we jsut accept that because she is from Turkey and she is a superstar?

Here are some copycat examples:

 

Moon

New member
Kiraze said:
Ok copying can be thought to be a form of flattery but at least I am pissed that many idiots at e.g. YouTube praise Didem´s originality and nice moves when in fact they have been done before and usually even better.
IMO copying is only a form of flattery when the dancer who is copying tells the audience she will be dancing a choreography by X or even better to ask X first if it is ok to dance her/his choreography. If you pretend it's your own, it's just stealing.
I can understand you have no appreciation for her left. People who give her good comments probably don't know the choreographies are copied. I also didn't know. I still think she's a good dancer but copying other dancers' choreographies without informing the dancer or the audience definitely doesn't make you a superstar!
 
When using an intructional video that has a bonus choreography, the instructor usually encourages the students to 'make it their own" by adding thir own stype and personality. The same is true for choreographies taught in the workshop setting. However with performance videos, no such encouragement is provided and using the exact same music and choreography is creative infringement. In the video age we get to see who's copying whom now.
Yasmine
 

Aniseteph

New member
Life is WAY too short to give a moment's thought to what YouTube Idiots think. :lol:

I agree with Yasmine about using choreographies off instructional video - a bit unimaginitive IMO but I guess that's what it's for, at student level at least. But professionals nicking other dancers' choreographies - :naghty: . Yasmine's right - it might impress the ignorant, but we know what you're doing :tongue: and it doesn't make you look big or clever.

As far as dancing ability goes I value the opinions of fellow dancers who know what they are looking at more than those of the general public who are happy enough to see someone shaking it in a sparkly costume. But then I'm not a showbiz superstar who knows where the money comes from :rolleyes:
 

sedoniaraqs

New member
The music is the same and the costume/wings look similar. However, I honestly don't see much evidence of choreography theft. They both do lots of barrel turns. But that's one of the obvious things to do with wings.

Sedonia

YouTube - Amar Gamal
 
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Kharmine

New member
If you think it's choreopgraphy theft (which is copying without credit), then leave a polite comment pointing it out on YouTube -- but be sure you're ready to cite the particulars of where the act is being copied (like another YouTube video) so viewers can check that out for themselves.

Enough comments like that and maybe the dancer will be more careful not pretend something as her own invention.

Sometimes it's hard NOT to look like you're copying someone else. Dancers have always "borrowed" from other dancers or we wouldn't have a body of knowledge to draw from -- it's claiming to have invented or created the act or not crediting where you got it from that's dishonest and just plain tacky.
 

Aniseteph

New member
I couldn't see much similar with the BDSS and Nari Narien (but I'm no choreo expert and am easily distracted with the cutting on the video :D ). Only a bit at 3:50 ish where BDSS do a similar hands behind the back move sideways on to the audience to what's in the video, only not with all that Bollywood energy. Hisham and co kick their butts IMO.

But I have found out how to run two YouTube clips side by side to watch for similarities, he he he... ;)
 

Suheir

New member
I couldn't see much similar with the BDSS and Nari Narien (but I'm no choreo expert and am easily distracted with the cutting on the video :D ). Only a bit at 3:50 ish where BDSS do a similar hands behind the back move sideways on to the audience to what's in the video, only not with all that Bollywood energy. Hisham and co kick their butts IMO.
Oh, I totally agree! I saw the BDSS perform their choreography twice and both times, only Jillina had any expression or any oomph in her dancing, the others were like expressionless robots and I was seriously bored. The Hisham Abbas video is delightful!
 

da Sage

New member
I think Didem is a young dancer (how old is she?) who has to create a new dance for every episode - perhaps once a week? If some of her dance choices are nods to other dancers, that's showbiz. I don't think she gets an opportunity to announce her inspirations, sources, and motivations...it's not a dance recital, after all.
 

Sara

New member
I managed to watch the first clip without it breaking up and can see why it appears that way. It's the same music.

I'm a bit confused, and this will sound like a stupid question, lol, but (although I int sure which way it goes) why would you copy another dancer anyways?
 
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Suheir

New member
I'm a bit confused, and this will sound like a stupid question, lol, but (although I int sure which way it goes) why would you copy another dancer anyways?
Sometimes it's because dancers are incapable of creating their own choreographies. "Combinations" DVDs seem to be all the rage at the moment, I've seen performances that have been comprised of combinations from IAMED instructional DVDs, Jillina, Aziza, etc!
 
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In the first video featuring Didem, there was enough similarites to Amar to safely say she was copying her. She chose the same music and performed similar accents to the music at the same time as Amar. There were only a few moments that revealed Didem's own personality. Whereas the Chinese troupe used the same music but danced with different responses. I own several "combination" videos,and after practicing with them I try to insert my own personality and flourishes to match the music and my mood. It takes more time to do this because it's easier to copy another's choreography than try to work out something that says 'me'.
Yasmine
 

Sara

New member
Once you see someone else moving to something, it can be hard to get that movement out of your head and to stop doing it and create your own cause you have an already existing idea of how it should/could look I guess....
 

Kiraze

New member
Sorry, I should have included those originals on my first post - copies of Jillina and Rachel were not so obvious so I did not react so much on those, but as this wings number is Amar´s "trademark" it is painfully easy to notice too many similarities even though Didem seems to have left out all the complex parts and does not seem to be very good with wings in all... if looking for exact steps then perhaps this cannot be thought as stolen property but I still don´t like that some high-ranked professional dancer do not have enough imagination to create her own dances (or even find herself a choreographer to do that) - it is not any excuse that she has to create a new dance for every show... most of the pros do the same. And as Didem´s dancing can be seen at television by millions of viewers it is in my eyes even worse as this gives GP an impression that she is this creative and versatile dancer when probably all the "different" dances by her are copied... so I don´t care what idiots comment on YouTube but I am afraid that TV-watchers think the same way :mad:

Turkey is not any "Wild East" - international copyright laws exist there and in fact as an applicant to EU they really also must be followed - choreographies are also protected by these laws :protest:

But here are the originals for wings and Maar dala:



(I myself do not care to much about BDSS but with Devdas I take bad copies personally :mad:)
 
On a couple of threads, we've discussed improv vs choreography. Mastering a choreography is relatively easy to do because you have to copy someone else in style and execution. But when a dancer has mastered the elements of improv, then there is a deep well from which to create. So how can bellydance foster creativity if a student shies away from improvisation. A professional performer should have a strong sense of improv and not rely on half-baked copies of someone else's creative genius. As Kiraze points out,then hire a choreographer. That's wht it means to be in the big leagues.
Yasmine
 

da Sage

New member
Sometimes it's because dancers are incapable of creating their own choreographies. "Combinations" DVDs seem to be all the rage at the moment, I've seen performances that have been comprised of combinations from IAMED instructional DVDs, Jillina, Aziza, etc!

Is this a bad thing? I always thought snagging moves from videos would be a great way to build a choreography.

Because bastardizing a local dancer's choreography didn't work out very well for me, the last time I tried it.:rolleyes:

Choreographies don't spring fully-grown from my head like Athena, in fact I have a hard time with dance improvisation. But a girl's gotta start somewhere. Bright ideas are much appreciated.
 

Lydia

New member
To copy others dancers is not correct in my eyes ,neither the music or costumes......i geuss i am old fashion in this...when you are a artist you feel and you imagion ...you visualize when you close your eyes and feel and imagion and imagion again.....untill your dance get,s shape.....with that you start to work on your steps ....ask others for advice ,learn how to do it ....you will learn slowly and take time to learn and write down what you feel and imagion.when you hear the music......there are plenty way,s to learn Dont just ,dont! copy others, it will make you a less good artist !you have to invent you have to work, you have to be tired,you have to train and than you have the credit!! I can,t respect atist that copy other artist they are just not artist that is the point! yust copycats... Beside that you must be proud and not to be willing to take others stuff, simple you put yourself down when you do that ,it only means 1 thing that you are not good enough or talented enough to do it yourself....and that is what you are showing to the world when you copy others ....so be proud and make yourself tired and work hard that is the way to get respect as a artist ....copycats are just another breed....and if you are still new in this field and you can not do it yet.. and you need help just ask me ..i am the first one in line to get you started,just dont copy others.....have a great Lydia
 

Suheir

New member
Is this a bad thing? I always thought snagging moves from videos would be a great way to build a choreography.

Because bastardizing a local dancer's choreography didn't work out very well for me, the last time I tried it.:rolleyes:

Choreographies don't spring fully-grown from my head like Athena, in fact I have a hard time with dance improvisation. But a girl's gotta start somewhere. Bright ideas are much appreciated.
It depends whether you're billing yourself as a professional or not. If I watch someone who claims to be a professional and I can identify almost all the elements of their performance as coming from instructional DVDs then I'm unimpressed.
 
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