Richard the Third

Aniseteph

Aniseteph

New member
There was a documentary about it last night here. You couldn't make it up.

Well, actually you could if you were writing a story with no twists and turns in it whatsoever. There was even an R on the car park in the place they had to dig, and ta daa there are leg bones, a skull in a strange position relative to the legs and OMG it's because the spine is twisted :shok:. They reconstructed his face and it looks like the portrait, and the DNA checks out... it ticked all the boxes leaving a strangely uneasy feeling because archeology progs on TV here usually come up with a lot of ifs and buts and maybes (like "maybe we would have found something more interesting if we'd put the trench in somewhere else").

The woman who started it all was most discomfited by the spine, having believed it was all evil Tudor propaganda. I felt a biy sorry for her on that one.
 
Mosaic

Mosaic

Super Moderator
King Richard had scoliosis that is why it was twisted. I saw the news about it & that DNA had given the proof. Apparently the direct descendants are very few & far between & if they had found the bones say 10 or 15 yrs down the track they may not have had any descendants to do the DNA thing, so the old Richards line is dying out!
~Mosaic
 
Munniko

Munniko

New member
I was watching the news this morning and well....the anchor man made a joke along the lines "but it is only a hunch" after talking about the spine >_>
 
Jane

Jane

New member
 
Mosaic

Mosaic

Super Moderator
Munniko said:
I was watching the news this morning and well....the anchor man made a joke along the lines "but it is only a hunch" after talking about the spine >_>
Click to expand...
istorians did think he was a hunchback, probably due to various reports of the era, but the skeleton showed he had a twist not a hunch, and the twist in the spine is (kind of like an S) is what is known as scoliosis. Today the spine can often be straightened or near straightened with pins & plates if operated on early enough.
~Mosaic
 
Pleasant dancer

Pleasant dancer

New member
Very interesting programme. If only for what it says about our ways of dealing with the past - or rather what our preconceptions make us believe about the past. I studied Archaeological Representation at Uni (i.e. how the way in which archaeological information is presented to the public shapes our attitudes to the past). I think this programme is going to be dissected for several dissertations in the next year or so!

I was very interested in the beliefs of the Richard III society's members. One was quite adamant that he he no spinal problem 'cos he was a warrior and wore armour (hey people, these were Master Armourers, they made armour to fit people, and a King could certainly afford them!)

I thought it rather telling that the osteoarchaeologist didn't want to carry the box with he bones draped in the Royal Standard from the burial site to the lab "I don't know it is him yet". Lady from Richard II Society trembled as she did so...

Still, it was a damn good story. Pity a bit more of the archaeological process wasn't included. I want to know about the Roman nail. Does it mean there is a Roman site still beneath the car park? I shall have to go and see if a Roman Centurion appears in a vision before me as I stand on the site............. Maybe go and stand on the letter "C"? Or perhaps that waswhat the letter "R" was really telling us, sod Richard :D
 
Shanazel

Shanazel

Moderator
I'd love to see the program; suppose it is on line somewhere?

Though not a true member of the fan club I've always thought Richard was maligned by the Tudors who had about as much right to the throne of England as I do. I'm rather pleased to discover he had scoliosis since people have made such a big deal of the horror/impossibility of it. My daughter has significant scoliosis and looks/functions just fine. I wouldn't put it past her to manage any kingdom that happened to come into her possession.
 
T

Tiziri

New member
I'm the kind of history/archaeology nerd who's excited about this. For one thing, finding him was a long shot, and it panned out. That they can say it was him "beyond a reasonable doubt" -- and that's credible, given all the evidence -- is pretty impressive. It's nice that the Franciscans did bury him at Greyfriars, rather than him being thrown in the river after all (since those were the competing accounts).

I tend to think he got a Tudor smear job done on him, although I'm sure he was no saint.

BTW, this is the University of Leicester's Richard III site: The Search for Richard III by the University of Leicester

And the larger Greyfriars Project site can be found here:
The Greyfriars Project — University of Leicester
 
Shanazel

Shanazel

Moderator
I'm the kind of history/archaeology nerd who's excited about this.
Click to expand...

You aren't alone. I'm tickled to pieces over this.

Thanks for the sites!

Later: I found the Channel Four site with the news story mentioned but alas it isn't available here. :(
 
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tigerb

tigerb

New member
I've been fascinated by Richard III since reading "The Daughter of Time" by Josephine Tey... decades ago now.
 
Mosaic

Mosaic

Super Moderator
This is so interesting. I can't watch the channel 4 video ( hopefully Nat Geo or the History channel will show it eventually) but the one on extracting mitochondrial DNA was interesting. I am also a history buff, & at the moment have been busy tracing my family. I would love to get my mtDNA done & my brothers to trace the male side but it is a bit expensive at the moment.

Thanks for the links Tiziri.
~Mosaic
 
Starmouth

Starmouth

New member
I am an absolute history nerd and found the whole story fascinating. I really enjoyed the documentary the other day, the lady from the Ricahrd III fan club (or whatever it was :lol: ) was a bit hilarious to say the least.
 
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