"Serious" dance training

[Amanda (was Aziyade)]

"Harsh" will vary from person to person, but if you want an example I offer "the crazy woman with the pyramid system": Dance Moms - Episodes, Videos, & Schedule - myLifetime.com

Okay, well to be fair, this is actually just a TV show, and at least half of the drama is made up. The premise of the show was originally supposed to be on how crazy the mothers were, who travel around to all these competitions every week and give up their own lives for their kids. You know, Dance Moms. Stage Mommies. But viewers responded "positively" to Abby's hysterics, so the show took a different turn.

Have you experienced this?
Let me preface this by saying there was never abuse. I never had bruises or experienced real pain. But it's very common in ballet for a teacher to use some kind of physicality to reinforce posture, feet, whatever. I have had my thigh whacked (not hard) with a yardstick, feet slapped to remind me to point, that kind of thing. But I had instructors who knew how to give physical corrective points without actually hurting you.

Do you think it's acceptable?

Slapping a leg to remember that THAT's the one you're turning on, well it sounds barbaric, but once you have that physical reinforcement, you sure remember to use the correct one! I think it can very easily turn into abuse if the instructor isn't emotionally stable, though. Other instructors I've had have encouraged us to slap our own thighs or feet or whatever. The tingling feeling is still there, to remind you, but you do it to yourself. There is probably a better technique, though.

Have you ever heard of this in a belly dance class?

Not outside of the internet.

Thoughts?

I think a lot of "she yelled at me" is misinterpretation. I was at a workshop once with Hadia, and she gave a basic correction to one of the students in the room, nothing harsh. I think it was "bring your foot closer in to your leg" or something innocent like that, and later I heard that student complaining that the teacher had singled her out to yell at her. Um, no. That was not the case at all. If that's the criteria, then I'm happy to say I've been yelled at by a lot of Egyptian instructors.

 

[Amanda (was Aziyade)]

I really like the question you brought up with the title of this thread, and would like to consider what we all mean by this:

SERIOUS dance training.

Granted, almost all of even the full-time professional dancers in the US (at least) also have day jobs because the market today just can't support them as performers. So they teach, or have unrelated day jobs, or maybe they're fitness instructors or whathaveyou.

But almost all of us who participate on forums like this are half-time pros or serious hobbyists, meaning we don't spend 8 hours a day dancing. So what, to us, is SERIOUS training?

I always used to wonder why we refer to each other as "dancers." I mean, aren't we all really students? Mohammed el Hosseney, when he came to the US, gave us all a reality check when he addressed us as "students." "You aren't dancers -- you are merely students." I lot of people got annoyed by that, but he was right.

How many of us actually train the way a ballet dancer or modern dancer trains? We're not in class or in rehearsal 5-6 hours a day. Some of us are not in the best physical condition -- I know I'm not, post baby. And even if you're not talking physical training, how many of us actually STUDY the music or the lyrics or the culture for an hour or two a day?

There is so much more to serious dance training than just talking class an hour or two a week, and drilling "the moves" at home. Can you imagine a modern dancer trying to get by on that kind of schedule? Why do we set the bar so low for ourselves?

So what would "serious dance training" encompass for you? How many hours a day? What subjects? What would you expect a Serious Dance Student to continue to study, outside of movement?

 

[Munniko]

Definitely agree with Aziyade on both posts. I think if the teacher knows what they are doing it is okay the tap the body part you want the student to move because to be honest a lot of people can't remember their left from their right on the spot.

I definitely have to agree with the student comment, if I could I would try and focus on bellydance like I used to for my music or Japanese studies, but currently I can't. It definitely makes me push myself to the next level in class because I know that I can't give it the three hours outside class that you should realistically dedicate for every one hour that you have in class (although once I have a single job and out of school I definitely will)

 

[Aniseteph]

I always used to wonder why we refer to each other as "dancers." I mean, aren't we all really students?

Me, absolutely. I'm only a dancer in the hobbyist community context - it identifies me as someone who actively participates dance-wise. In any wider sense, no way. I'm just playing in the sandpit.

 

[Zumarrad]

Let me preface this by saying there was never abuse. I never had bruises or experienced real pain. But it's very common in ballet for a teacher to use some kind of physicality to reinforce posture, feet, whatever. I have had my thigh whacked (not hard) with a yardstick, feet slapped to remind me to point, that kind of thing. But I had instructors who knew how to give physical corrective points without actually hurting you.

Do you think it's acceptable?

Slapping a leg to remember that THAT's the one you're turning on, well it sounds barbaric, but once you have that physical reinforcement, you sure remember to use the correct one! I think it can very easily turn into abuse if the instructor isn't emotionally stable, though. Other instructors I've had have encouraged us to slap our own thighs or feet or whatever. The tingling feeling is still there, to remind you, but you do it to yourself. There is probably a better technique, though.

I think it's also worth remembering how physical and tactile professional-level ballet is. I mean they're all over each other sometimes, picking each other up etc. They have to be prepared to do that. I get the impression that touching is very normal in the ballet and contemporary dance world. And the body is an instrument that you're constantly pushing and prodding and doing things to, that is usually in some kind of pain or discomfort, so it can handle a lot, and it cannot be precious about its privacy. It's a thing that is, for want of a better word, more public than normal people's bodies are. It would be the same for athletes, gymnasts, I reckon.

In the adult ballet classes I go to my teacher will sometimes use a student's body to show how something works - I am thinking pulling round the standing thigh to show how you rotate your leg when you promenade - but it's always a student he knows, he always lets them know it's coming and he's always very physically respectful of people generally. He seems to have quite a good knack for knowing who and when to touch and when not.

I had a student at one stage who was trained at a Chinese performing arts school and she told me her teacher would stick her high heel into her thigh if she couldn't get down in a split! ARGH!

WRT us calling ourselves "dancers" when we are not as serious as real professional dancers: well, I think that is part of the allure. I think that in the globalised bellydance world most of us buying and selling some fantasy, and part of that fantasy is of being a professional performer. We are encouraged to think of ourselves as "dancers", with all the grace and elegance and sense of accomplishment and specialness that goes with that word. We go on stage and we have costumes and lighting cues and dress rehearsals and we are members of "troupes". But 90 percent of us would not meet any of the criteria for a professional dancer, either bellydancer or other dancer.

I don't think that makes what we do less valid. It's just different.

 

[Shanazel]

I don't think that makes what we do less valid. It's just different.

This absolutely. If it moves like a dancer and acts like a dancer and thinks like a dancer- well, it ain't a duck.

 

[Roshanna]

I think it's also worth remembering how physical and tactile professional-level ballet is. I mean they're all over each other sometimes, picking each other up etc. They have to be prepared to do that. I get the impression that touching is very normal in the ballet and contemporary dance world. And the body is an instrument that you're constantly pushing and prodding and doing things to, that is usually in some kind of pain or discomfort, so it can handle a lot, and it cannot be precious about its privacy. It's a thing that is, for want of a better word, more public than normal people's bodies are. It would be the same for athletes, gymnasts, I reckon.

Yeah, I noticed in my very tiny experience of adult ballet classes that the teacher was very 'pokey'. But it wasn't intrusive or abusive at all, more that she knew exactly where to prod or tickle someone to get exactly the right muscle to engage, which was quite fascinating to watch. OTOH, the contemporary teacher I went to for a bit never touched anyone, as far as I can remember. And when I went through a phase of taking Raqs Sharqi Society classes, they did contact improvisation with no question of whether we were comfortable with it, which really freaked me out. It does definitely seem like dancers in some other dance forms are far more touchy-feely and more comfortable with their bodies being 'public property'.
My current bellydance teacher is actually fairly hands-on compared to most, but more in a 'gently moving things around' way than a poking and slapping way!

WRT us calling ourselves "dancers" when we are not as serious as real professional dancers: well, I think that is part of the allure. I think that in the globalised bellydance world most of us buying and selling some fantasy, and part of that fantasy is of being a professional performer. We are encouraged to think of ourselves as "dancers", with all the grace and elegance and sense of accomplishment and specialness that goes with that word. We go on stage and we have costumes and lighting cues and dress rehearsals and we are members of "troupes". But 90 percent of us would not meet any of the criteria for a professional dancer, either bellydancer or other dancer.

I don't think that makes what we do less valid. It's just different.

We should also remember that this isn't just us. My parents are seriously into modern jive, and there are a huge number of people in that style who refer to themselves as 'dancers' but are totally in-it-for-fun hobbyists, often with little technique and terrible posture. Even the teachers often have pretty bad posture, and practising outside of class, let alone cross-training, seems fairly unheard of for all except the most serious. From conversations with my Mum, it seems that posture is never taught, steps are taught without any refinement of technique, and few teachers have any knowledge of safe warmups and cooldowns etc.

We beat ourselves up a lot by comparing ourselves to elite Western theatre dances, but actually, compared to the other social dances that adults take up for fun, which is arguably a better comparison for the majority of bellydance students, I think we are a pretty dedicated and well educated bunch.

Having said that, I would love to be able to dance at a truly 'professional' standard. But unlike Western theatre dancers who study dance at school and university, and have full time training opportunities, most of us are stuck trying to fit our training around doing other stuff to pay the rent. There's only so much you can fit around a full time day job without driving yourself mad (or giving yourself horrible migraines in my case)... I dance pretty much every day, take time off work and travel 2 hours each way for weekly classes at a challenging level, take regular privates, and travel to workshops at least once a month. But, I'm aware that even pushing myself to the limits of what I can do, financially and physically, I can never compare to a dancer who was introduced to dance at a young age and has had the opportunity for full-time intensive training, and many of those dancers would probably never consider me a professional. It's pretty depressing, really

 

[Zumarrad]

Having said that, I would love to be able to dance at a truly 'professional' standard. But unlike Western theatre dancers who study dance at school and university, and have full time training opportunities, most of us are stuck trying to fit our training around doing other stuff to pay the rent. There's only so much you can fit around a full time day job without driving yourself mad (or giving yourself horrible migraines in my case)... I dance pretty much every day, take time off work and travel 2 hours each way for weekly classes at a challenging level, take regular privates, and travel to workshops at least once a month. But, I'm aware that even pushing myself to the limits of what I can do, financially and physically, I can never compare to a dancer who was introduced to dance at a young age and has had the opportunity for full-time intensive training, and many of those dancers would probably never consider me a professional. It's pretty depressing, really

On the other hand, people who start dancing very very young don't always choose to stick with it, whereas those of us who took up our dance form later in life, without serious professional expectations, are more often going to keep doing it as long as we can still stand up. (And then there are those who started young, became pros, danced as long as they possibly could professionally and then segued into teaching, choreography, showcases etc, and who will probably never stop dancing on some level. But they are our treasures and we can't complain about THOSE ones.) It has been really interesting to me with the ballet, dealing with people who have danced professionally or tried to, or who are working with kids who have professional ambitions - they are so fatalistic about it. Like, the idea of an injury that will kill a person's career, they're not "oh no how terrible" about it. It's just a given that it might happen, end of. We were talking about kids going on pointe too early, and I was all "blah blah damage to their legs and feet blah" and the woman I was talking to was all "well yes but ALSO, they LOOK TOTALLY AWFUL with BENT KNEES". I do get the impression that everyone knows hardly anyone can actually BE a dancer at that level and the goal of looking right and being able to do the movements right is paramount, and so long as you don't break first and you make the cut, that's great. But if not, oh well never mind. It seems that it would be heartbreaking, to me, to work so hard for nothing. But that's the reality. It's so weird.

In my class the other week was a young woman who, well, I don't like using the word ballerina willynilly but she probably classifies as one - she was a principal dancer for the RNZB for some years, gorgeous dancer. She hasn't done anything but ballet in her whole life - she's still well under 30 - and she quit a couple of years ago. I mean, we think "oh being a ballerina, how wonderful!" But I guess if you are one, sometimes you get to a point where you go "well actually I am sick of being sore and maybe I'd like to find out what other things I like and could do."

 

[Yame]

Having said that, I would love to be able to dance at a truly 'professional' standard. But unlike Western theatre dancers who study dance at school and university, and have full time training opportunities, most of us are stuck trying to fit our training around doing other stuff to pay the rent. There's only so much you can fit around a full time day job without driving yourself mad (or giving yourself horrible migraines in my case)...

This is exactly right.

And honestly, I'm getting tired of constantly beating myself up for not being able to train at a truly professional level. We can't blame ourselves for not having the sort of training Western theater dancers have, because we don't have the public funding, we don't have the audience, we don't have the demand, we don't have the academies, we don't have the companies, we don't have the opportunities.

It just isn't there. Not even close. Most belly dancers who do this full time can barely afford to pay for their living expenses, let alone continue training. Actually most of us can't do it full time. Most of us have day jobs. If we're working 8+ hours a day, how exactly are we supposed to fit in 8+ hours of dance training a day? Nobody is going to pay us to train for our shows. We have to pay for our own training.

The thing I envy about ballet the MOST, is the fact that if you are very talented and work very hard, you can audition and get into a company and get paid to take classes and perform. The pay is ridiculously small, but it beats nothing, and it certainly beats running on the negative like we do. Even if there were classes available where I could dance for 8 hours a day, I would be spending over $80 a day and that's an extremely conservative estimate. I would love to be able to get that kind of training in belly dance.

But it doesn't even exist. Even if I had all the money and time in the world, I'd never find a belly dance academy that offers that many classes and that kind of quality of training. So it's just not a fair comparison at all. I think anyone who spends a significant amount of their free time taking classes, practicing, studying, going to workshops, performing, etc, gets to call herself or himself a serious belly dancer.

 

[Zumarrad]

For a while, bellydance was a dance form for people who loved to dance but who would not make it as professional dancers in other forms because they were too old, too fat, too short, too tall, lacked the ability to put their foot on their ear, and so on. You could be a good bellydancer without having to tick every box, and even without being an athlete. You could even get paid to do it. I fear we are losing that in our quest for quality dancing sometimes.

My teacher was a self-identified "technique freak" and she was very frustrated at the poor technique and level of performance that was out there as bellydance in our country, generally speaking. I think that has improved radically since those times, though there are still dreadful performances in awful costumes etc etc, just like everywhere else. Overall people are a lot more polished and technically proficient than they were. Now though I fear an excessive focus on technique and performance and very little on culture and feeling.

 

[Amanda (was Aziyade)]

Well, hold up. There's no need to beat ourselves up over not being in class 8 hours a day!

I said:

How many of us actually train the way a ballet dancer or modern dancer trains? We're not in class or in rehearsal 5-6 hours a day. Some of us are not in the best physical condition -- I know I'm not, post baby. And even if you're not talking physical training, how many of us actually STUDY the music or the lyrics or the culture for an hour or two a day?

And that wasn't meant to be a criticism, just really a question.

More to the point -- Does our art form REQUIRE extensive training?

I mean, I have discussed this with Tribal Fusion dancers who have danced or still dance with "a certain traveling show" and they all tell me they train and practice between 4-6 hours a day. Now those are pros -- who are actively dancing in shows pretty much 5 nights a week, if not more. But how much actually training time do Oriental dancers need? And what do we classify as training? The TF ladies count yoga and time at the gym as training time. They sometimes count working with the music as training time too. Rehearsal, drilling, etc. It adds up.

Personally I think we need to spend as much time working with the music as we do working with the movement. But I'm very music-focused, so that's my prejudice.


There is so much more to serious dance training than just talking class an hour or two a week, and drilling "the moves" at home. Can you imagine a modern dancer trying to get by on that kind of schedule? Why do we set the bar so low for ourselves?

The above may sound snarky, but I'm fighting my own students on how many times they need to listen to the music. They don't know it inside and out and sometimes get "surprised" by a bridge or second chorus, and I keep telling them "listening to it only when you're dancing it, 3-4 times a week, is NOT enough. PERFORMANCE is completely different from just dancing for fun. There is a lot more energy and work put into performance, and I don't think a lot of people see that.

As for "if it looks like a duck and walks like a duck ..." Shan -- ABSOLUTELY! I was just reading an article about how people who wore lab coats tested higher than those who didn't (I'll try to find the link. The idea was that if you feel smart, you'll BE smart.) I think "dressing the part" definitely helps you focus your attention on your goal. THINKING of yourself as a dancer can go a long way in making your performance more interesting and exciting. But we have to always temper that with also thinking that we're continually students. I have seen WAY too many mid-level students decide they were "dancers" and suddenly they stopped growing and their performances suffered.

So I ask again:
So what would "serious dance training" encompass for you? How many hours a day? What subjects? What would you expect a Serious Dance Student to continue to study, outside of movement?

 

[Amanda (was Aziyade)]

Since I brought it up, I'll start:

So what would "serious dance training" encompass for you?

For me, it's two parts: PRACTICE and STUDY

1. Practice means focused, REGULAR practice -- with a goal.

2. Study is analyzing videos, reading books, listening to and taking apart the music. Anything that doesn't involve me actually getting up to move.



How many hours a day?

(Again, just for me personally, I have to be sort of rigid in how I approach my training, otherwise I would just sort of wander off and just dance randomly with no goal, whenever I feel like it. I need a pretty rigid structure, but others might not.)

Personally, now that my child is taking 2-hour naps, I can pretty much devote 2 hours a day to the PRACTICAL or PRACTICE part of dance. This has to include warm-up and cool-down, although sometimes I can stretch outside the studio with him. (My "studio" is in the basement, in the other half of the laundry room. I had to have a place of my own with no distractions.) Sometimes if I'm lucky I can sneak in a ballet or modern dance class here and there, and I simply HAVE to find time to start working out again. I need to lose the last of this baby weight before he's in school! My absolute minimum is 90 minutes. I NEED that time to get done what I want to get done.

Because I need the rigid structure, I dedicate my PRACTICE time out in daily chunks: 15 min for this, 30 min for this, 20 min for rehearsing this, whatever. And I have calendar goals: This month I'm focusing on the skeleton for this improv piece. Next month it's learning this Tito choreography. After that it might be putting all those Saidi combinations together into a cane piece, whatever. This week I'm going to master that combination, or work on this layered shimmy, etc. I also sometimes have to "schedule" in just plain free dance time, to play with new music, or just to take a break from all the structure.

What subjects?

PRACTICE: Drills, Choreography, Improv practice -- whatever skills I'm working on currently or need to stay good at.

STUDY: books, magazines: books on choreographic theory, books on Arab culture, books on music, etc. Also watching and analyzing my own videos, other people's videos, videos of other dance forms. Also listening critically to music, listening to music just to get the experience of listening, analyzing the music.

What would you expect a Serious Dance Student to continue to study, outside of movement?

The culture(s), the language, the music, the trends in dance, costuming I guess, dance as art (and dance theory) psychology of dance.

 

[Sophia Maria]

So what would "serious dance training" encompass for you?

I would say that if you're trying to train "seriously", you would need many things to contribute to the training. You need to train technique. Then you need to have a professional give you regular feedback on your technique (in person). You would also need to keep up with fitness as well, because if you're working towards performing professionally, you need endurance. Equally important as the technique training is setting aside solid time each week to just dance. One doesn't simply "drill" everyday, and learn how to dance. This means complete improvisation--it's something that I think every BD student needs to train seriously.

"Serious" training also involves studying, this is very true. Personally, I think it is so important. I spend a few solid hours a week (sometimes more than I will admit ) researching on the internet or reading books. Then I participate in discussions on OD or on Bhuz, which always teach me something new. I also started an Arabic course this semester at my university. To be quite honest, sometimes I really wish THIS was a required part of "serious" part of bellydance training--to learn at least basic conversational Arabic. (or Turkish? Who knows?)

I would also list music as a separate point because it is so important. Hopefully this would come naturally. I do not understand people who pursue bellydance without loving Middle Eastern music. It would be like doing hip-hop and hating rap. I love Middle Eastern music and listen to it half the time I'm listening to music. Then when I say I am "studying" music, I'm doing things like finding new songs, finding translations, and memorizing lyrics to try to learn more words.

Serious dance training also involves variety and interaction. What I mean by that is that one cannot dance in a bubble. One must go to train with other dancers, talk with other dancers, go to performances (even ones you're not sure you'll like), buy different DVDs, learn other styles, learn the basics of other dance styles.

I would argue that bellydancers do not have to train like ballerinas to be "serious". But I would argue that they do have to partake in daily practice and commitment to the dance.

 

[Shanazel]

THINKING of yourself as a dancer can go a long way in making your performance more interesting and exciting.

In over thirty years of teaching and studying dance I've seen so many examples of this. I've also seen how identifying oneself as a dancer affects every aspect of one's self-confidence. My favorite example is one I've shared before:

About ten years ago, two young women signed up for my class together. One was a cheerful babbler, the other was a self-proclaimed "klutz." The babbler happily and loudly seconded this evaluation of her friend. I told the second girl (Tiffany, I think her name was) that there is a difference between being a klutz and being untrained and that I believed she was simply untrained.

She worked hard (the babbler not so much) throughout the semester. In one class toward the semester's end, she executed a lovely spin and drop to one knee. That girl shot up off the ground like a rocket, yelling, "I'm NOT a klutz- I'm a DANCER!"

It was a life-changing moment for her and a golden moment in my teaching career.

 

[Yame]

Well, hold up. There's no need to beat ourselves up over not being in class 8 hours a day!

I said:

How many of us actually train the way a ballet dancer or modern dancer trains? We're not in class or in rehearsal 5-6 hours a day. Some of us are not in the best physical condition -- I know I'm not, post baby. And even if you're not talking physical training, how many of us actually STUDY the music or the lyrics or the culture for an hour or two a day?

And that wasn't meant to be a criticism, just really a question.

But is it really a question we should be asking? Is it a comparison we should be making?
I'm not singling you out for asking it, because personally I've found myself making the same comparisons and asking the same questions. However what I've found is that this line of thinking isn't going to do anything but depress me. It just isn't a fair comparison. Only 0.0001% of us (sorry for the totally arbitrary percentage) will ever actually be paid to rehearse 5-6 hours a day, because the dynamics our community and market are completely different... so this isn't a common model for us. In other dance forms, that is something that is very commonplace. And the people who don't get accepted into the dance companies, they usually either just end up teaching, or drop out of dance altogether. With us, we have to make it all happen. We have to pay for our own training if we want to keep going. Expecting to be able to rehearse or practice that many hours a day just isn't realistic for the typical belly dance professional.

More to the point -- Does our art form REQUIRE extensive training?

It depends on so many things... for example, it depends on region. There is so much regional variation not just in style but in the quality of the professionals and and serious students, it's impossible to have an answer. Even if we lived in a world where standards were about the same across-the-board, it still would depend a lot on the individual. Some people pick up and improve extremely fast, while others take a really long time.

So I always sort of avoid that answer. However I think I can answer for myself as an individual... for me, I think it does require extensive training. Because whenever I ask myself the question of what I should be doing to get better, my answer is always "more." Whether I'm going through a lazy period where I just take all my classes but hardly ever practice at home, or whether I'm going through my motivated period where in addition to my classes I'm also practicing daily. It doesn't matter how much I do, I always feel like I should be doing more.

It's partly because there are so many things I want to work on, and no matter how much I improve there is always more. Perhaps if I could train 4-8 hours a day, I would have already hit a plateau past which I just can't really improve, and perhaps then I'd be satisfied with my level of skill (I doubt it), and perhaps then other people would see me as a great dancer, but even then, I'd still want to keep doing it... because I just love doing it.

So even if we don't actually NEED the extensive training... I want it anyway. Because I want to dance, all the time. And I don't mean dance by myself at home (I've been REALLY unmotivated to practice on my own lately). I mean actual classes with other people, plus rehearsals, plus performances, plus dancing socially. The few times a year I get a chance to take workshop intensives where I am dancing for 4-8 hours a day for multiple days in a row, that's when I am the happiest. I wish I could have that in my life, all the time.

There is so much more to serious dance training than just talking class an hour or two a week, and drilling "the moves" at home. Can you imagine a modern dancer trying to get by on that kind of schedule? Why do we set the bar so low for ourselves?


The above may sound snarky, but I'm fighting my own students on how many times they need to listen to the music. They don't know it inside and out and sometimes get "surprised" by a bridge or second chorus, and I keep telling them "listening to it only when you're dancing it, 3-4 times a week, is NOT enough. PERFORMANCE is completely different from just dancing for fun. There is a lot more energy and work put into performance, and I don't think a lot of people see that.

I'm really big on telling people that coming to class once a week and doing nothing outside of class to improve their dancing isn't going to achieve much. With that said, again, the modern dancer point is just not a fair one to make. I know I already said this a lot, but I really want to drill the point home here... there is basically nothing we can do--not right now at least-- that would make our training schedule less laughable to a modern dancer. Unless you are in a belly dance company that offers and pays for your training (do they exist?), unless you have access to some sort of belly dance academy that offers multiple belly dance classes every single day with reasonable package prices... there is just nothing you can ever do that won't be laughable to a modern dancer.

Even if you take a one-hour class every day of the week, and then go home and practice for hours... that's still laughable. That's not serious, elite training. Practicing by yourself in front of a mirror is something, but it's not the same as being in class constantly being corrected by a strict teacher for hours and hours everyday.

Even if you perform multiple shows everyday. Performing is not training. I mean, sure, it is training. You're practicing a lot of things when you perform... you're practicing stage presence, you're getting movement practice, you're practicing transitions, you're developing your own persona... but you're also developing bad habits. Anyone who has been performing for years and years and not supporting that with regular training ends up with some technical issues, most often one side being MUCH stronger or better than the other (For example people who can only turn one way, who do most movements on only one side, etc. We all have these issues whether or not we practice, but when we practice we try to balance out both sides and when we perform we favor one. The most one-sided dancers I've seen are seasoned performers who haven't taken classes in a long time).

So I think no matter what you'll do, it'll still be laughable from the perspective of someone who dances ballet or modern professionally. That's why I don't think we should be using those comparisons at all. We should still set the bar high for ourselves... in areas like mine, certainly the bar should be higher than it is right now. But I think we need to find our own balance, not try to base it off of these other dances that are so different from ours.

 

[Roxannya]

There are dance teachers from other genres of dance that yell, demean, cuss at, and even hit students to correct them

Honestly, I don't know how they even keep clients coming back to their studios with behavior like that. It's incredibly disrespectful. If the tables were turned, I'm almost certain the student would be asked to leave the premises. While good, honest, heart-felt correction should be expected, and welcomed by the student, physical and/or mental abuse has no place in the classroom.

I have never experienced this. I do not think this is acceptable. I can't see how it would be effective. If an instructor has to resort to tactics like this, they may want to consider another vocation where the public is not involved.

 

[Kashmir]

Honestly, I don't know how they even keep clients coming back to their studios with behavior like that. It's incredibly disrespectful.

Never had any contact with children's ballet then? Not only is/was this common, the classes were packed. And yes, the parents were aware of it as they sat outside the studio and could hear what was happening inside.

 

[Darshiva]

Occasionally I have heard of teachers having to simplify choreographies instead of pushing the students to do more. It seems a shame.

Actually, this is one of the reasons I have taken choreography out of my regular classes and turned it into a class on it's own - that you must pass an audition for. If you want to learn choreography, you have to earn it!

 

[Shanazel]

My poor students are forced to participate in developing choreography: a group dance is a group effort all the way, although She Who Must Be Obeyed has the final say.

 

[WaterLilly]

It's true that in ballet almost every teacher is a bit aggressive (some more, some less) but I think this comes mostly from the type of dance. With arabic dances I have never seen a teacher that would yell or hit a student. I explain this to myself like this: every dance requires training and seriousness, and hard work but I may say that ballet requires an extra amount of hard work on the technique. Of course, this doesn't give teachers right to abuse their students but it's one way to understand why they behave like this.

Btw, all belly dance teachers that I ever met are the most smiling, happy and energizing people - they give out big amounts of positive energy to the students and never act negative.