Strippers as students

belly_dancer

New member
as far as private lessons/contracts Hanifa..
how about...
type up a quick contract, including release from liability, AS WELL as a missed class policy... most dentists/doctors have this right on their appt. card. (something like unless cancelled 24 or more hours in advance, you will be charged for missed appointments)..
ALSO... start a PAY IN ADVANCE POLICY.... then they WILL call you!
you can even write in your contract..
"this is my job, and my time is valuable. If for some reason you have to miss your scheduled class, I need at least a 36 hour notice, in which to fill your time slot with someone from my waiting list. If you give me less than 36 hours, your money will only be refunded if I am able to fill your time slot. thank you for your understanding."
of course I am always too understanding (the 1st time it happens) if they call the morning of with a sick child, broken car etc.... and I will reschedule them with no extra charge... but no longer in a "prime time" slot!!
GOOD LUCK!
 

Hanifa

New member
Thanks, Ayizade for taking the time to answer all my points one-by-one. I have been told many times that bringing students into 'the home' is a dangerous dynamic at times. My husband mirrored a whole room, so it is a beautiful space for teaching, that would be hard to give up.

Believe it or not, some teachers have nothing in writing that I have known - it's all by the fly. This is INCLUDING, my teachers! These days, as you say, you can't be careful enough and a paper trail is the best way.

I have already collected a few student/teacher contracts from different dance studios today, so I'm on the right track. My major mistake is not doing this in the first place, esp. having it in my home.

My husband is a big toughie - and assuredly, he is home for any new students that come in and keeps an eye out. You don't know these people!

I just want to do the right thing for THEM ethically, and myself. When you stand there with no student after waiting for eight hours and preparing your studio for a lesson, when you could have a paid student from your waiting list - it doesn't feel very good.

I don't want to teach groups, because, it is absolutely not my thing. Everybody has an instinct or talent and mine is one-on-one teaching. My students seem to advance well and the personal relationships are rewarding.

I may have a pre-student interview on the phone "So what do you do" "Are you a student" "What are you looking for in a teacher" - do some fact-finding and then "tool" my availability as to whether that person gives me a bad feeling.

Thanks again, Ayizade and Belly Dancer for your comments.

Hanifa
 

charity

New member
hanifa, i think because you do lessons out of your home, you have every right to discriminate against what students you accept and dont. and so developing a sort of "application" process, is probably even okay. as a student, i would understand. i would just make certain if you have a contract, you view it from both sides. for example, include a clause that states that you can refuse anyone's business at any time and that if you so choose this cancellation of classes a full refund for classes paid and not received will be given. do you get the gist of what i'm meaning? there is probably a more professional way for it to be stated. but its a clause that allows you to maintain the most professional and safest environments for you and your family and your other students.
 

Hanifa

New member
Thank you

Thank you. I am taking all of your advice and developing a plan.

It is rather sad that it is so difficult. If you teach out of a local community center or studio outside the home, they are legally responsible for all of this.

Maybe I can teach privates through a studio, I don't know if they offer this!

Thanks again, all.
 

silvrmoon

New member
An Ex-Exotic Dancer's Perspective

I get very emotional about this topic on both sides. I feel like putting in my 2 cents.

I was an exotic dancer/stripper whatever you want to call it for 7 years. I have been seriously taking Belly Dance classes for about 8 months and am working towards public performance and joining my teacher's troupe. I am also developing my own class teaching exotic dance and pole dancing to women who are interested. It is totally separate from my belly dancing. I would never dream of mixing them because they are not the same. And I would educate anyone who tries to put them together. That's not to say I will never borrow elements from one to another, but all dances do that. (Suhaila's Belly Dance/Jazz tape comes to mind) The thing is I will never say they are the same. I would never use Belly Dance costume, body posture, energy, choreography, music etc if I ever went back to the clubs. I might do a hip circle a bit differently now. It might be a bit more BD inspired, but then again I've trained my muscles to do that. I would never tell a gentleman in the audience that I also do Belly Dance, he would mentally equate one with the other. Similarly, if I get to the point where I perform BD at an event or restaurant I would never use stripper moves, posture or anything else to get another tip in the basket. I want to be tipped as a Belly Dancer for the skill in my art, not my sexuality. I think you get my point. Performance Exotic Dance has a lot of similar movements, but so do a lot of other dances. In Exotic dance you hold your body differently, you place emphasis on different body parts than in Belly Dance. For example, BD is hips tucked under emphasis on belly, exotic is hips pushed out emphasis on rear and chest. The two dances both celebrate femininity but they are two different sides or energies of that feminine spirit. These are just my personal observations an feelings being someone who has done both dances.

I took stripping seriously. I performed on stage, I thought about my costumes and music. I made eye contact with the audience. I brought them into my world and took them on a journey. I didn't have to be overly sexual about it because I was truly an entertainer. In my time at the clubs, I worked with very few other women like that. The majority are just average women, college students, single mother's, just trying to get by. Many of them have been abused, have or had addiction problems etc. They are either still stuck in bad habit or are trying to work their way out of them. Financially (if the women actually save their money) stripping is a great way to start to get back on your feet. Unfortunately, because of the way society looks upon the industry the clubs have plenty of corruption and temptation. The girl that was abused, got out of a bad relationship and is now trying to support herself may find the allure of alcohol too appealing (or drugs, but honestly the drugs are kept WAY quiet. I never saw a single drug in my 7 years at different clubs) or may start dating a equally abusive customer. If the industry had regulations and standards a lot of this could be managed if not eliminated. Now these are not ALL the women. A good chunk are just average women who aren't sucked into the negative. And some women are true performers who will embrace any form of dance and artistic expression and honor that art. It's not the club they work at or the fact that they are a stripper, it the woman herself, her background, ideals, morals, etc.

It's not the fact the person is a lawyer, it's that person's background, ideals, morals, etc.

It's not the fact the person is a different race..... etc. etc.

Yes, because the adult entertainment industry is the way it is you might come across a few more bad strippers than good. I'm not making excuses for these women, they've made their choices to be dishonest or to just think about the next dollar in the garter, but the way society views the profession has a lot to do with the women who end up in it. There are plenty of good strippers and ex-strippers. Please be aware of the realities of the profession, don't let your guard down, but don't turn them away initially. Really, don't let your guard down with anyone. Even the a shy housewife could give the art a bad name, or steal from you, or anything else dishonest. If you come across a bad seed then you deal with it but don't label them as bad from the start.

Get to know your students. Teach your students not only the movements but the history behind the dance. The genuinely good people, no matter where they come from, will honor Belly Dance.

Sorry for such a long post, but I do get very worked up over these issues. Just as Belly Dancers are working to get rid of the perception of them to be like strippers, plenty of strippers are working to make their art more professional and accepted. I'm trying to honor both sides.

Thank you for reading.
 
Welcome Silvrmoon, It was refreshing to read your post and it made a lot od sense too! BTW hope to get to meet you soon since you're from my hometown. Do you take classes with Cassandra Al Warda?
Yasmine
 

Zandra&Zindor

New member
Thank you, Silvrmoon.

Hi, Silvrmoon.

Thank you for your thoughtful response. I feel like I learned something important from you, today.

Best wishes.
Zandra
 

Zandra&Zindor

New member
Dear Shanazel,

I know I tend to be a bit overprotective of my friends. I thank you for your explaination and understanding!

Zandra



Don't apologize; perhaps you did misinterpret some responses, but that's okay- you did it with a loving heart . . . .


What a good friend you are to have taken this subject up, though! I'm sorry if either you or Kelly thought I was passing judgement on her. . . .

Please realize that when one of us asks a question on this forum, the others answer honestly and sometimes vehemently, but the vehemence is for the subject and not for the person who posed the question.

Shanazel
 

Zandra&Zindor

New member
Dear Yasmine

Dear Yasmine,

Thank you for your thoughts. Since I was the one who typed her question, I didn't want people to judge her as a prude because I did not type her question well enough! I greatly appreciate your reply.

Zandra


Dear Zandra&Zindor,

I didn't perceive that Kelly in any particular way and responded to her posts because she wanted to know if this situation makes us feel uncomfortable. My answer was along the lines that it didn't bother me. Obviously, there was some concern on her part or she would not have asked the question. So I think you misinterpreted the responses.

Yasmine
 

Amanda (was Aziyade)

Well-known member
Thanks, Ayizade for taking the time to answer all my points one-by-one. I have been told many times that bringing students into 'the home' is a dangerous dynamic at times. My husband mirrored a whole room, so it is a beautiful space for teaching, that would be hard to give up.


Hanifa, my private teacher in Lousiville teaches from her home -- in a similar space, a fully-mirrored extra bedroom. I thank my lucky stars that she teaches there and lets students into her home! Otherwise, I might never have hooked up with her! We did a pre-class interview too, so she could find out what I was looking for in private instruction (and, I suppose, so she could determine whether or not I was a freak.) I found that interview very beneficial as a student.

Glad my meanderings helped you in some way. :) Good luck to you.
 

Zaynab

New member
And as far as the "moves" -- we have to remember that a so-called horizontal hip figure 8 does not BELONG to bellydance. The same hip movements are used in dances all over the world. We do hip work in eastern European folk dance, pelvic work in w. African dance, and look at all the hip work in the Latin dances! And just from a brief documentary on burlesque in this country (US), I dare say they were bumping and grinding quite a while before the bellydance craze set in.

The general public cannot differentiate much, between good or bad technique, the different styles of BD, if it is true or fusion, or if the costume is a real professional costume or not, etc. as long as it looks Mid.Eastern, that is enough for them to think that they are looking at a BD performance, especially if Mid.Eastern music is used.

Z.
 

Zaynab

New member
#2 Exotic/Pornographic models as students?

One student I had recently was a "fetish model" for men's porno magazines. She told me this in the first five minutes. I am an open-minded person, and a kind person, and she was very young and I thought maybe this would help her in a new direction (I know, naive). I don't want to judge. She missed her third lesson and did not contact me for 48 hours - I told her by voice mail she needed to pay for the missed lesson and that maybe she should find another class. When she finally contacted me she said since she was "beat up" at a session (good lord) that I have no understanding or caring as a teacher. I said, well now that you told me this -- because I, of course, had no foreknowledge, I am concerned about your welfare - and of course I will give you your lesson money back, and you are welcome to come back to class. She said that I conduct "bizarre business practices" and many other choice words. Should I wait until I hear from these people, no matter how long, before demanding payment and cancelling class? I hold these spots for them, where other students coudl be paying me!

You see that this person could have been a danger, even to me, because of the element she could have brought around me and my students, that's another aspect.

Another student, who was a stripper, stole four videos out of my house. I finally got three back from her (dropping them off in my mailbox, without admitting she stole them). I have no other problems accept with people in this industry.

So - you can't tell a person, obviously, "I won't give you lessons because of your lifestyle!"...These are very dramatic examples, I'm sure.



Desperate Hanifa

This is a very interesting point to me, although everyone have made completely valuable statements and I have understood all the different point of views, I could say that I am not all that open-minded about some things (but who cares). My point is that me being me, I would not work at a strip club or do anything similar because of my moral values and religious values. Moral values include not only not stripping but also not stealing and other immoral behavior, not that all strippers would do that, it also works the other way around, lots of women who do not strip, do take belongings from other people without permission.

I know that society does not think highly of strippers, my perception is that society in general has a negative opinion of the stripping "profession" and the strippers. To me that is a very good reason to feel uncomfortable if BD is associated with stripping. Of course, I don’t think that women who strip are bad people, they are humans, and I am sure many have good feelings, but there is no way that stripping is a respectable profession.

Some might say that there are women who do it for the money, because they get paid better than doing other respectable jobs, well, I know people who work as housekeepers and make very little money, just enough to barely cover their needs, but they rather do that than the other. Money is not the most important thing in life, but perhaps the things that have nothing to do with it. I like to feel proud of what I do and what I am, of course everything has to do with the way one was brought up.

If I was a teacher working on my own, I would make it clear that many Belly dancers work hard to break the negative stereotyping, and I would also make it clear what the purpose of the dance is (according to me and many respectable dancers), and that I cannot contribute to the mere thing I am trying to end. Also, I would not like my name to be mentioned or associated with teaching the dance for stripping purposes.

Also, word of mouth is very important when it comes to reputation, I know professional dancers who own dance academies and they are concerned with the way their students portrait the dance outside classes. They cannot prevent students from doing whatever they want, but they have the responsibility to educate them and clearly say what their philosophy is.

We all know that in the world many people are discriminated against just because they have dark skin color, or come from a certain part of the world, etc., this is done openly and it is supported by many. I don’t see why I should open the doors of my home to anyone who do something that is not in accordance with my moral standards of conduct.

Z.
 
The general public cannot differentiate much, between good or bad technique, the different styles of BD, if it is true or fusion, or if the costume is a real professional costume or not, etc. as long as it looks Mid.Eastern, that is enough for them to think that they are looking at a BD performance, especially if Mid.Eastern music is used.

Hi Zaynab,I disagree. I give the GP more credit than that. Specifically speaking about Oriental Dance as a perfomance art, the audience does know the difference between good and bad technique, robotic dance -by-the-count vs free flowing interpretation of the music. A performer should never take the audience for granted. The costuming choices are not necessariy Middle Eastern in origin either, unless you are referring to folkloric costumes and even then they have been 'theatricalized' to fit the stage.
However if we continue to think of our audiences as uneducated and do not provide accurate descriptions of our art, then who do we blame, the audience or ourselves?
From my experience so far, anyone who equates Oriental Dance with Exotic dance have neither seen either in real life and confuse the sexual connotation of one with the sensual nature of the other.
Yasmine
 

Zaynab

New member
Of course when the GP sees a performance well done in every sense, they can tell it is good, when they have that comparison point, but many times what we see out there is mostly restaurant performances by non professional dancers who are not even getting paid that well for the job and still they are willing to do it.

We don't see that much of general public at other venues, at theater performances and haflas we see mostly Belly dancers and other people related to the industry, family members are getting well educated by all of us (BD), so we don't worry about them, but other people don't know much about BD, at least that is what I have seen so far.

The most famous Belly dancers are unknown to the GP in this part of the world. On the other hand, the GP has seen Shakira "bellydancing" and they think she is good at it, in my opinion she is not and most of what she does is not even BD, in her shows she incorporates some elements of the dance and does some hip drops and figure 8s with poor thechnique but it looks gracefull and people like it.

But I don't mean to underestimate the GP, I do think that if one doesn't know better or hasn't seen better, then it is easy to think that what they are seeing is real bellydancing.

Love,

Z.
 

KuteNurse

New member
Think of it this way. She may be an exotic dancer and she may be using belly dancing moves in her exotic dance routines, but, while she is in your classroom, she is learning bellydance moves. Which in turn, keeps her from stripping while she is in your classroom. Plus, you have the added bonus of being a positive role model for her. You never know, maybe your influence might turn her around and it may give her the self-confidence to leave what she is doing behind and start a more positive life. She may be looking towards you for guidance. Give it a try and you may be pleasantly surprised.
 

KuteNurse

New member
Thankyou and well said yourself belly dancer. Teachers are in a position of power and why not use that power to inspire one another. If you look at the statistics of a stripper-you will realize that a large percentile of them have been abused sexually or physically. Strippers are people just like you and me with the same physical and emotional needs. Just because the class is in a conservative town does not mean one should sit in judgement of another because of what they do with their profession. Treat everyone as your equal and inspire them. Use your teaching power to help others who may be reaching out for help and you will receive more satisfaction for what you have done than any price can bring you.
 

Persephone

New member
I guess I'm on the fringe here, but I haven't seen anything yet to offend me (except the woman who stole videos!). I don't have a problem with strippers, adult bookstores, or fetish photography, and while I do think that there's a problem with associating belly dance too closely with the sex industry, all of the situations posted have gotten a go-ahead from me.

1) The strippers in class. Sure, why not? I've met strippers and former strippers who are really nice people and sincerely interested in learning BD. While I think it's kind of condescending to suggest that one could "turn someone's life around" just by being a good influence, at least taking BD classes could help a lot of exotic dancers to use technique and posture that could prevent serious injuries.

2) The adult bookstore thing. I would definitely have second, third and fourth thoughts, but I think I would do it, for a few reasons. First, because my husband used to work in an adult bookstore, and it would be insensitive and wrong to act like I think I'm better than him. Second, because it's an opportunity to educate -- "The tradition that we call belly dance originates from a wide variety of social and ritual dances in the middle east. Some have theorized that some of the movements are based on rituals of marriage and fertility, intended to allude to the acts of lovemaking and childbirth. While there is no way of knowing which theory is correct, the idea of bellydancing as a sensual rite has been persistant in Western culture..." etc. Third, because it's a chance to help people feel good about their bodies and their relationships. How cool is it for a couple to want to bellydance together? Pretty cool. And fourth, because it sounds like it was advertised honestly. I would ask for my professional name not to be used in the advertisements, but I think I would do it.

3) The fetish model -- I agree that I would have a problem with un-notified no-shows, but being in bad shape health-wise seems to me to be a good reason to miss class. If it were just a recreational session I would be miffed that she'd done something that would obviously lead to injury right before a class, but sometimes I think the full-time dancers forget that most of us have jobs that we really need, and sometimes the job has to come first. I also understand that one has the right to select who comes into one's home based on any criteria, even just a "feeling," but I would like to make clear that being involved in the fetish or BDSM scene does not mean that a person is dangerous or violent in non-consensual situations -- just like someone said about the strippers, it's likely that you've had students who were into getting "beaten up" before and never knew about it.
 
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