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  1. #11
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    Yes I said. This is my personal opinion but I am willing to hear others opinions and correct.
    The channel doesnt intend to teach a particular style, but basic moves only. However, the way she does the snake arm looks more like tribal fusion considering the clean isolations, focusing, level of arms...
    I am not expert in other styles but in both tribal fusion and egyptian I have been taught to lift shoulder elbow wrist fingers for a snake arm. So the basic is the same.

  2. #12
    Member Roshanna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flowerrose View Post
    Yes I said. This is my personal opinion but I am willing to hear others opinions and correct.
    The channel doesnt intend to teach a particular style, but basic moves only. However, the way she does the snake arm looks more like tribal fusion considering the clean isolations, focusing, level of arms...
    I am not expert in other styles but in both tribal fusion and egyptian I have been taught to lift shoulder elbow wrist fingers for a snake arm. So the basic is the same.
    It's a nice idea for a video making project, I suppose, but I can't see these being useful to beginners as they are.

    The 'arm waving' video does not depict a bellydance movement at all. This movement is literally never used in Middle Eastern dance. It does turn up in fusion dances sometimes, but it comes from the 'other' part of the fusion, not the 'bellydance' part.

    The snake arms one, I can at least see what it's trying to indicate, I suppose.

    The hip movement ones are unclear and confusing, and I don't think anyone would be able to learn from them. For one, they don't show or explain how the knees are moving, and secondly, the 'breakdown' isn't clear at all. It just comes out looking like random jerking.

    I do think that animated drawings which illustrated the shapes that students were aiming to create with their bodies could be useful as a teaching resource or as an aid memoire, but I wouldn't recommend these to students at the moment.

    The music choice is also a problem. I appreciate the difficulty of finding royalty-free middle eastern music, but I would never recommend that a student of mine use a video which did not use middle eastern music. It encourages the idea that bellydance is 'just moves', rather than a complex cultural artform based on musical interpretation. It also distances the dance from the Middle East, which I am not comfortable with. I would suggest asking permission from a musician to use one of their recordings, or searching for 'royalty free music', which you can pay a small one-off fee to use for noncommercial purposes.

  3. #13
    Moderator Farasha Hanem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roshanna View Post
    It's a nice idea for a video making project, I suppose, but I can't see these being useful to beginners as they are.

    The 'arm waving' video does not depict a bellydance movement at all. This movement is literally never used in Middle Eastern dance. It does turn up in fusion dances sometimes, but it comes from the 'other' part of the fusion, not the 'bellydance' part.

    The snake arms one, I can at least see what it's trying to indicate, I suppose.

    The hip movement ones are unclear and confusing, and I don't think anyone would be able to learn from them. For one, they don't show or explain how the knees are moving, and secondly, the 'breakdown' isn't clear at all. It just comes out looking like random jerking.

    I do think that animated drawings which illustrated the shapes that students were aiming to create with their bodies could be useful as a teaching resource or as an aid memoire, but I wouldn't recommend these to students at the moment.

    The music choice is also a problem. I appreciate the difficulty of finding royalty-free middle eastern music, but I would never recommend that a student of mine use a video which did not use middle eastern music. It encourages the idea that bellydance is 'just moves', rather than a complex cultural artform based on musical interpretation. It also distances the dance from the Middle East, which I am not comfortable with. I would suggest asking permission from a musician to use one of their recordings, or searching for 'royalty free music', which you can pay a small one-off fee to use for noncommercial purposes.
    The points about the music were what I was going for. Thank you for explaining it better than I did, Roshanna.

    I'm perfectly fine with using Middle Eastern pop as an introduction to ME music for beginners who are unfamiliar with the genre; my first exposure was with the BDSS anthologies. And yes, it's a pain finding royalty-free Arabic music. However, a beginner series of bellydance lessons should be grounded in the music of the culture, before introducing music used in other styles.

    The idea of using cartoons has potential, but the artist should make sure the renderings are not only accurate, but also easy to understand and follow, otherwise the beginner might end up learning wrong, and even potentially injure himself/herself.
    Last edited by Farasha Hanem; 06-30-2015 at 05:45 PM.

  4. #14
    V.I.P. Kashmir's Avatar
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    Sorry - I'm going to get picky. The moves selected I suspect are the ones which are easiest to animate. Arm Waves and Snake Arms come way, way down the list of things to teach to a beginner. For a start, they are NOT a basic part of a belly dancers movement vocabulary - defined as you can be a good belly dancer and never use them. Next, teaching shimmy without teaching HOW to get the hips to move up and down? Just do it? (And this is ONE shimmy) No mention that shimmies are relaxed and in time with the music.

    But I am most concerned about the Mayas - again not a beginner move - and this was pushed as "for beginners". But unlike Snake Arms which would just be a waste of time (unless you had shoulder impingement issues), Mayas can do some nasty things to people who have poor posture, hypermobile lower backs, or do not have good automatic ab control.

  5. #15
    Moderator Darshiva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kashmir View Post
    But I am most concerned about the Mayas - again not a beginner move - and this was pushed as "for beginners". But unlike Snake Arms which would just be a waste of time (unless you had shoulder impingement issues), Mayas can do some nasty things to people who have poor posture, hypermobile lower backs, or do not have good automatic ab control.
    I have to agree about the figure 8s. I lost a really excited student due to the damage she did to her back running ahead and doing mayas, etc from a dvd before she was ready. It was a real shame to lose her, and a real shame about her back too. But this is why I do ab articulation from day 1 in my classes - that way they've at least got some conditioning before we decide whether or not to tackle the figure 8s.
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  6. #16
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    Thank you all for your comments and suggestions.
    Yes, although the current videos do not cover very beginning moves in bellydance, they are those moves which a beginner bellydancer has to finally learn but she or he may find it very difficult. Of course, no one will try to learn the simple hip slide, hip lift or drop ...from a cartoon character, while there are vast real resources everwhere. I remember when I started bellydance, I was disperately looking for videos of snake arm, arm waving, hoping that one of them might have explained it in a different language so that I could get the move. So the reason of starting the channel with such difficult animations is to focus on difficult but basic moves to attract more people. In the future the rest easy animated moves can be easily added to complete the resourse.
    Thanks for your other constructive comments as well.

  7. #17
    Moderator Daimona's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flowerrose View Post
    This is actually a perfect breakdown for an electric boogie arm wave. (oh, the memories...)
    Last edited by Daimona; 06-30-2015 at 05:52 PM.
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  8. #18
    Moderator Daimona's Avatar
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    It is a nice idea to demonstrate simple moves with a cartoon and I would like them to be even more detailed. One possibility is to also show the moves from the side to become more aware of posture etc. You could also add pointers etc for things the watcher need to be aware of.

    If music is a challenge, is it possible for you to just use (or program) a rhythm or record an arabic folk song on a simple flute or something like that?

    If you'd be willing to license your work under the CC license and not doing this for commercial purposes, I'm sure you can find things online that is usable. When I've made videos previously (not dancing, though), I've used music from www.jamendo.com and http://freemusicarchive.org as well as other similar sites. I haven't searched for Arabic music at these sites, but you might find something usable there as well.
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  9. #19
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    Thanks a lot Daimona. Interesting points. Will be considered.

  10. #20
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    Hi again,
    New videos have been added to Susi bellydancer channel:
    How to do a muscular belly roll and reverse it:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ywnz3jAmex0
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCm2_Ct8HnU

    I tried to show the profile view and zoom in the belly to be more visible.
    I am sorry that the music is still kind of tribal fusion style. I tried arabic rhythms but they don't match the varying speed of belly roll which is for instructional purposes.
    enjoy!

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