Tribal Fest Controversy

Zumarrad

Active member
I get the impression that tribal communities are very intricately tied up with online networking, so everyone has something to say to their 1000 tribal friends about this.

TF was set up as a "safe space" for self-proclaimed weirdos and has to this day an outright ban on oriental dance and oriental dance music and (literally) sequins because an oriental dancer was once mean or blunt or insufficiently worshipful of tribal back in the day. Its entire being is based on that mentality. But a lot of big names are coming out with stories of how it ceased to be or feel nurturing and safe for them quite some time ago, and expressing a lot of disappointment in the festival. It seems that this secret group was just the catalyst they needed to start talking about it.

I think the whole "we are a tribe of special different people" thinking has fuelled the powerful levels of distress. Whether it was justifiable or not, people were encouraged to think of themselves as a family, and now the family is destroyed, so to speak.
 

TiaSerena

Member
I've been following this one on facesuck (Zorba, that is awesome), and I have been having a really hard time reading some of the comments that appear when anyone in the bellydance community ask about the situation, the who, the what, when and how, and the comments toward Kajira herself. It has really been truly horrible to see a community turn on each other in that way. People should be able to ask questions and talk about their thoughts and feelings without being crucified for it. I haven't seen all the posts from all the teachers or dancers who were targeted because I don't have much time to look, but April Rose did a good job explaining the type of things they saw in the screenshots from the secret group. So far, she is the only person I have seen who really gave us any detailed information on the what was said. IMO, if you are going to take a stand like these dancers did, you should be prepared to answer questions about the situation and be able to openly discuss it.

Really crappy the event is gone. Always wanted to go.
 

Shanazel

Moderator
How did I miss the remark about a literal ban on sequins?

These people are obviously godless barbarians. :shok:
 

Farasha Hanem

New member
How did I miss the remark about a literal ban on sequins?

These people are obviously godless barbarians. :shok:

:lol:


Seriously, though, that is a bit ridiculous. All because ONE UNTHINKING DANCER got snarky? That's a bit thin-skinned. :/ It's one thing to make a group, event, festival, whatever, geared towards a specific genre or aesthetic, but to ban SEQUINS to make a group "feel safe"???

*pounds head against wall incredulously* :wall:
 

Zumarrad

Active member
It wouldn't have been one unthinking dancer. It was I gather a general lack of interest in or acceptance of tribal as it was back then as bellydance. I mock. But I've deal with fallout from this belief that all oriental dancers hate and deride tribal dancers for years and it all seems to stem from the Tribal Bible, quite frankly.

From the TF site, which is still up:

"We have never allowed strict cabaret or nightclub style Raks al Sharki unless as part of a particular presentation to make a point, because at the time TF started, there were no festivals ‘just for us’￾ and we Tribal folk were relegated to the small stages and off hours of other festivals, and thought of as a ‘fad’￾ or worse. The Producers have no problems with traditional forms of Egypt, Turkey and other countries and feel we are creating new traditions here at Tribal Fest®. It has never been a secret that Kajira started her dance career as an American Cabaret solo dancer and as a member of the original Gypsy Caravan of California, and she still enjoys those styles. It was only that in 2000, the ‘traditionalists’￾ had a problem with us.This policy will remain in effect and applies to costuming and music as well. No orchestrated music used by Raks al Sharki dance forms, either. Not allowed are bedlah sets (beaded bra and belts worn by cabaret dancers), plastic pailettes or sequins on anything – be it net scarves or whatever – unless as part of an original ethnic textile as flatwork. Plastic – with very rare & recent exceptions – has never been and is not ‘tribal.’￾ Think coin bras and ethnic textiles. Try to tone down the sparkles in favor of mirrors, glass, metal and other indigenous medium. Dance styles must be at least ‘Tribal-inspired’￾ or related. And, as Carolena once said, ‘Judicious use of well-placed rhinestones will not be turned away.’￾"
 
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Roshanna

New member
"We have never allowed strict cabaret or nightclub style Raks al Sharki unless as part of a particular presentation to make a point, because at the time TF started, there were no festivals ‘just for us’￾ and we Tribal folk were relegated to the small stages and off hours of other festivals, and thought of as a ‘fad’￾ or worse. The Producers have no problems with traditional forms of Egypt, Turkey and other countries and feel we are creating new traditions here at Tribal Fest®. It has never been a secret that Kajira started her dance career as an American Cabaret solo dancer and as a member of the original Gypsy Caravan of California, and she still enjoys those styles. It was only that in 2000, the ‘traditionalists’￾ had a problem with us.This policy will remain in effect and applies to costuming and music as well. No orchestrated music used by Raks al Sharki dance forms, either. Not allowed are bedlah sets (beaded bra and belts worn by cabaret dancers), plastic pailettes or sequins on anything – be it net scarves or whatever – unless as part of an original ethnic textile as flatwork. Plastic – with very rare & recent exceptions – has never been and is not ‘tribal.’￾ Think coin bras and ethnic textiles. Try to tone down the sparkles in favor of mirrors, glass, metal and other indigenous medium. Dance styles must be at least ‘Tribal-inspired’￾ or related. And, as Carolena once said, ‘Judicious use of well-placed rhinestones will not be turned away.’￾"

Wow. I can understand the desire not to have Raqs Sharqi performances - but the music and costuming restrictions seem petty. The ban on classic Arabic music, in particular, strikes me as terribly sad, and as the tribal community cutting its own nose off to spite its face. The statement that plastic 'has never been and is not tribal' is also kind of bizarre - what does 'tribal' mean in that context?!
 

Farasha Hanem

New member
Wow. I can understand the desire not to have Raqs Sharqi performances - but the music and costuming restrictions seem petty. The ban on classic Arabic music, in particular, strikes me as terribly sad, and as the tribal community cutting its own nose off to spite its face. The statement that plastic 'has never been and is not tribal' is also kind of bizarre - what does 'tribal' mean in that context?!

So much this. Tribal fusionists want to be included under the "bellydance umbrella," yet they ban Arabic MUSIC in their festivals? That's not just cutting off the nose to spite the face, that's committing "facial suicide," at least in my opinion. Arabic music is the heart and soul of bellydance.

*sigh*

Before I read the part on the ban of Arabic music in the web site quote, I started to say the only "problem" I've ever had with Tribal Fusion was calling it "bellydance." I love a good Tribal performance, and even took Tribal classes for a short time. This ban on Arabic music just...what would be the proper way to say this? Validates my opinion to call Tribal fusion a different dance form? o.0 I hope I'm making sense.

Anyway, I'm probably veering off-topic. I do feel terribly for Kajira. This whole thing is such an ugly mess. :( I hope she can recover from this professional and personal blow, and that the Tribal community comes back together once again to enjoy doing what they love. :(
 

Aniseteph

New member
Poor woman, it must be horrible dealing with this, especially if it's your supposedly supportive sisterhood beating you up for your husband's jerky behaviour.

I don't have masses of sympathy for anyone who thinks they can have a safe space just by talking the warm fuzzy talk - stuff will get on the internet, bitches gonna bitch and sleazy types gonna have secret FB pages - but when it's an organiser betraying you, ouch, that hurts. Still, worse for her if she didn't know.

Secret FB pages, ha ha, no one would ever leak those, right...? :rolleyes:

I am so not about TF. I can do NoSequins just about, but they lost me at the NoArabicMusic. ...not belly dance IMHO, not belly dance....
 

Shanazel

Moderator
of

The angry face and single word above are apropos of nothing. They are accidents of fumble fingers and I can't banish them.


... we are creating new traditions here at Tribal Fest®... Try to tone down the sparkles in favor of mirrors, glass, metal and other indigenous medium.

Indigenous to where? Creating new traditions? Traditions evolve within a community and aren't declared by committee. However, community consensus could be useful in outlining costume, musical, and dance vocabulary standards for the community with the full realization of what that community represents.

I have no objection to tribal or tribal fusion except when adherents insist on being called belly dancers. They might as well insist on being called Kathakali dancers because they wear billowing skirts and occasionally use Indian-flavored music. Tribal dance is a cool artistic invention but participants tend to forget ATS was a wholesale invention of a talented dancer with an big imagination and a talent for fusing bits and pieces from a number of dance traditions into a modern whole. It was not and is not a natural evolution from the dances of the Middle East.

That tribal/tribal fusion dancers create venues and communities for themselves is perfectly lovely. This sense of community might be reinforced if some of the prickly people in that community find a sense of humor, get the chip off their shoulder about not being accepted as belly dancers, and accept themselves for what they are: performers of dance styles that have their roots in the sixties and seventies era of California and some amazing imaginations therein.
 
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Roshanna

New member
So much this. Tribal fusionists want to be included under the "bellydance umbrella," yet they ban Arabic MUSIC in their festivals? That's not just cutting off the nose to spite the face, that's committing "facial suicide," at least in my opinion. Arabic music is the heart and soul of bellydance.

To be fair, I think they did at least allow middle eastern folk music, as long as it sounded acceptably 'ethnic' :think:
But presumably no art music/classical music/popular music, and certainly nothing composed for dance.

I'm aware I'm wandering far away from the original thread topic here, but that whole statement really brought home to me the extent to which the Tribal aesthetic seems to have been based on some kind of weird orientalist fantasy of the 'noble savage', in which the real music and dance of real people isn't 'real' or 'authentic' enough because it has dared to move forward into the present day with everyone else, and so it has to be mashed together, cherry picked or remodelled to fulfil the 'tribal' fantasy of picturesque natives untouched by modernity (and untainted by sequins or plastic).
 
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Shanazel

Moderator
Oh, please do wander away with the rest of us. If we're all lost together... are we really lost? :D

I cannot agree that the tribal dance movement is "weird orientalist fantasy." That ignores any innate creativity/imagination on the part of tribal participants who wish to establish an identity for themselves in the wider dance community. I don't see them as attempting to resurrect some imaginary golden age of the orient as much as they're working to build something cohesive out of elements that appeal to their spiritual and aesthetic sensibilities. None of these elements are the sole possession of middle eastern cultures, not the swirling skirts, the heavy rhythmic music, not the strong upright posture, not the emphasis on feminine strength, not even those tassels some dancers are so fond of. I joke about barbarians who eschew sequins but cabaret bling has no more place in tribal dance than do braid extensions and twenty yard skirts in Raks.

Whether we like the styles or not and whatever problems exist within any given tribal community, tribal and its offshoots are legitimate modern forms of dance and deserve better than being decried as mere decadent western fantasies of the orient. Composers are writing music specifically for the tribal and tribal fusion movements in dance. Designers are creating costumes for the various styles, and styles have evolved over the years just as belly dance costume styles have: remember the turbans and mismatched prints of tribal yesteryear? (Sigh. Probably not; many of you are far too young.) I'd like to see tribal and tribal fusion dancers stop insisting on the belly dance label largely because I think they are doing themselves a disservice and only incidentally because that insistence irritates those of us who define belly dance's essential elements as middle eastern music, a recognizable vocabulary, and costuming that owes its style to the middle east.
 

Zumarrad

Active member
I don't think it necessarily IS a weird orientalist fantasy, but it has its roots in orientalist fantasy just as a lot of non-ME-rooted bellydance does, or did. I think we know so much more about what we're doing now that there's less, hopefully, of that old harem girl fantasy but that is absolutely 100 percent what attracted a lot of people to the dance form initially, and tribal had its own version of that. Tribal was very much based in the by women for women, ancient Goddess dances myths that were so popular in the 70s and 80s and that fitted in so well with second wave feminist thought.

A lot of non-ME women with little or no experience of ME people and cultures were drawn to bellydance because they thought of it as sexy and exotic and mysterious and mystical and hyper-feminine. I know that's what I thought about it when I first began. Tribal went through a wilfully asexual phase which, ironically, seems to have been exploded completely by a lot of tribal fusion artists (at a time when oriental dancers were often under pressure to keep their sexuality under wraps while simultaneously copying Egyptian dancers who so, so don't).

"Cabaret bling" may have no place in tribal dance - except for how many tribal dancers seem quite happy to pop it on when given a chance - BUT what's more concerning to me is the way that so many dancers of the Kajira ilk seem to believe that "tribal" peoples exist outside the modern world. People make the most of the resources to hand, and adopt new fashions and styles, and that's why traditional hand-made garments from places like Afghanistan and Pakistan can include things like zips, used decoratively, and plastic beads and pieces of nylon machine lace that some seamstress decided would look nice.
 

Shanazel

Moderator
Some very interesting points, Z.

Having been surrounded by dedicated members of groups like SCA for so many decades, I'm not in the least troubled by the fantasy worlds other people like to build for themselves, whether they're whacking each other with swords or dancing around bonfires in camel tassel skirts. I'm also not sure when Orientalism became such a dirty word. All sorts of fantasy activities based on shallowly understood cultures exist in the world, from Orientalism to Cowboyism (oh, the tales I could tell about Asians and Europeans and New Yorkers in their newly bought cowboy boots and hats). And no, I don't believe that it is any different for a gal from Arizona to dress up in a khaleeji dress and dance an Americanized version of gulf dances than it is for a gal from Tokyo to dress up in a square dance costume and do-di-do to her heart's content.
 

Roshanna

New member
I don't think it necessarily IS a weird orientalist fantasy, but it has its roots in orientalist fantasy just as a lot of non-ME-rooted bellydance does, or did.

Yes, this is what I was getting at.

I definitely don't think all tribal *now* is based on that goddessy fantasy of pre-modern matriarchal 'tribes', BTW, but that seems to have been a big element in the creation of the tribal movement, and some elements of it still linger.

BUT what's more concerning to me is the way that so many dancers of the Kajira ilk seem to believe that "tribal" peoples exist outside the modern world. People make the most of the resources to hand, and adopt new fashions and styles, and that's why traditional hand-made garments from places like Afghanistan and Pakistan can include things like zips, used decoratively, and plastic beads and pieces of nylon machine lace that some seamstress decided would look nice.

Exactly! It's the idea that 'tribal' people belong in the past, and become 'inauthentic' if they adopt elements of modern life that really irks me.
 

Shanazel

Moderator
I do love a precise answer. Thanks, Zumarrad.

Sometime when I have 40 extra minutes laying around, I'll watch the whole thing.
 
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