Tribal Fest Controversy

Salome

Salome

Administrator
This has been all over my facebook feed for a while. I don't have any involvement with Tribal fest, the producers, never been as an attendant etc. and I'm not trying to poke a bee's nest here... It sounds like some of the DJ's(?) involved in the event created a private facebook page where they posted pictures and negative comments about some of the dancers involved in the festival. I was trying to find a link to the public apology by one of the individuals but couldn't find it. Someone decided to make that private page public and there was a huge reaction. Some teachers and other people pulling out of the festival and very hurt dancers and attendants.... Which I can understand.

I don't know what exactly what was said about who on this page. I can imagine that whatever is was felt very hurtful, especially for those who believed they were friends with the people making the comments.

I see people using words like "suffering", "devastated", "anguish", "heartbroken", "tragic"... someone was even likening it to a rape or something similar. The tone is truly like someone has been murdered, it's that extreme and intense. Do you feel that the reaction to the action is as it should be?

I don't know what was said at all, just the inference that it was negative. And I could TOTALLY EAT MY WORDS if I had witnessed... but my first reaction is that the tone seems over the top. When someone suffers a rape, the death of a loved one, something really tragic... I expect that kind of expression. When someone has talked shit about you and especially when you know and have a relationship with that person - yes it sucks, it hurts, it stings but does it annihilate your very being?
 
Bellydance Oz

Bellydance Oz

Member
I agree, I felt the reaction was beyond ridiculous. As I understand it, it was a men-only Facebook group where the members posted pics of the belly dancers and made admiring-but-vulgar comments on them.

I can't see any suggestion that the photos were altered in any way, and if they weren't, then it sounds smutty and childish but no worse.

It wasn't just a DJ - it was the husband of one of the organisers (a well-known Tribal belly dance teacher). He has been involved in helping to organise the Tribal Fest for some years. So obviously for her, it was a shocking betrayal.

http://darklydramatic.blogspot.co.uk/2015/09/how-do-we-heal-looking-for-solutions.html
http://www.shimmysupport.com/tribal-fest-2016/


Since the husband in question has been removed from the production team for the Fest, I can't understand why so many dancers decided not to perform at the Fest. Basically, the poor woman has just been let down by her husband, why punish her further by refusing to dance at her event?

http://teachersunitedpublicstatement.tumblr.com/
 
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Jeanne

Jeanne

Member
Check out the Gilded Serpent article for all the relevant statements in one place:
http://www.gildedserpent.com/cms/2015/09/27/tribal-fest-under-fire/#axzz3n4VQS6TP

I don't want to get too involved in this because I am not a member of the Tribal Fest community. However, from what I have heard about the posts involved (from people who have been active in TF), it's more serious than "admiring-but-vulgar comments" about the performers -- apparently there were some extremely sexist and demeaning remarks, and also insulting comments about the looks of some of the performers. It may be easy to dismiss this as locker-room talk, but the performers and instructors who have withdrawn were very shocked because they saw this as an extreme violation of what they considered a safe and nurturing space.
 
Z

Zumarrad

Active member
I have seen some of the remarks parsed by a person who was one of those pictured in the group, and they were pretty disgusting. Especially from men who many of the targeted dancers trusted and believed were decent blokes who treated them as people, not prospective wank fodder. Much of that discussion has since been locked down. Like Jeanne I am not involved with the tribal community but I believe that Tribal Fest was promoted as a safe space for experimentation and quite daring, sometimes risque or otherwise edgy performances. Rightly or wrongly, those women felt they were secure, watched by understanding supporters, not people who'd share photos out of context with other DJs along with lots of sleazy comments. At least that is the impression I've got from what I have read.
 
Bellydance Oz

Bellydance Oz

Member
So, did the Tribal Fest not allow the general public to attend? As far as I'm concerned, if someone is going to dance something blatantly sexual they should expect men to respond in a sexual way.
 
Zorba

Zorba

"The Veiled Male"
I've been following this debacle for a couple of weeks - my Tribal Fusion teacher was one of the denigrated dancers.

WITH the caveats that I A) was not there, B) haven't seen the pages in question, C) am quite sure I don't know the entire story, blah, blah...

My #1 comment is that this is YET ANOTHER Facesuck brouhaha. The sooner people realize that NOTHING good ever comes of that site - and others like it, the better off the world will be. Associate yourself with a site made for teenagers - teenaged DRAMA *will* be the result, sooner or later. I guarantee it.

From what I know, I do think the reaction of "Teachers United" is a bit extreme. Going on what apparently happened: A) The page/group/whatever in question was NOT associated with Tribal Fest in any way, B)Then it turns out, it was a betrayal by a husband as another poster here pointed out, C) It was on Facesuck - which I wouldn't so dignify with any credence of any sort, THEN D) It isn't TF's fault at all, they had nothing to do with it. It would be like like me stopping dancing at {insert venue "A" here} because something happened at {insert venue "B" here}.

The above comments are based on a LOT of assumptions - the real story may be different.
 
Zorba

Zorba

"The Veiled Male"
Another thing - without detracting from the hurt and outrage of the dancers in question: When you put yourself "out there", you WILL be sniped at. I've had all kinds of nasty stuff said about me, online and offline. You have to "deal" (with it). Unfortunate, but true.
 
Z

Zumarrad

Active member
Bellydance Oz said:
So, did the Tribal Fest not allow the general public to attend? As far as I'm concerned, if someone is going to dance something blatantly sexual they should expect men to respond in a sexual way.
Click to expand...

Well, I don't know. And I don't know if there were blatantly sexual performances or not. I wasn't there. All I do know is that TF is a place where more "edgy" performance has been encouraged - that's not automatically going to be sexual. And even if they were, so what?

If you were, for example, at a party with friends and got a bit drunk and there were photos of you being silly, how would you feel if the party host, a man you knew well and considered a trustworthy decent person, or another guest of a similar ilk, shared those photos with friends and made sexual comments all over them? This seems to be what upset those people.
 
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Roshanna

Roshanna

New member
Zorba said:
A) The page/group/whatever in question was NOT associated with Tribal Fest in any way, B)Then it turns out, it was a betrayal by a husband as another poster here pointed out,
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The husband in question, as I understand, was heavily involved in the running of the festival, including being the main point of contact for teachers/performers.

Zorba said:
C) It was on Facesuck - which I wouldn't so dignify with any credence of any sort
Click to expand...

You really can't write off deeply misogynistic comments (including sexually violent content) as trivial just because they were written on a website which you disapprove of. The medium is irrelevant.

I have not seen the screenshots in question, but I have seen descriptions of what they contained written by one of the affected teachers, who had seen them. It was really not nice. If that type of stuff had been written about me, I would certainly not feel safe or comfortable having any further contact with the people who had written it, let alone dealing with them in a professional context.
 
Zorba

Zorba

"The Veiled Male"
Roshanna said:
The husband in question, as I understand, was heavily involved in the running of the festival, including being the main point of contact for teachers/performers.
Click to expand...
If that's the case, it begins to make some sense.
You really can't write off deeply misogynistic comments (including sexually violent content) as trivial just because they were written on a website which you disapprove of. The medium is irrelevant.
Click to expand...
You have a point.
 
Bellydance Oz

Bellydance Oz

Member
Zumarrad said:
If you were, for example, at a party with friends and got a bit drunk and there were photos of you being silly, how would you feel if the party host, a man you knew well and considered a trustworthy decent person, or another guest of a similar ilk, shared those photos with friends and made sexual comments all over them? This seems to be what upset those people.
Click to expand...

Of course I would be upset - but I wouldn't then refuse to attend any of the wife's events, provided her husand was not present.
 
Darshiva

Darshiva

Moderator
All I've seen are women blaming each other for the actions of the men responsible in this situation. It's hard. I've been running around reminding everyone that two conflicting statements can both be the truth at the same time. I see a lot of hurt women processing their anger in what I think are not the most effective ways, but I'm hardly the person to tell people how to process their emotions. The biggest disappointment for me has been how tribalistas have divided into us & them, with people either being in Kajira's camp or BDU's camp and little ol' me over here in the corner wondering why we can't just support all the injured parties and turn our anger on those who are actually responsible. There were people demanding that she divorce her husband over thisn - and for many, the fact that she has not done that is the reason they are boycotting TF. Anyway, I STILL support all the women in this situation although I do think they are all being equally ridiculous by picking each other apart. It'd be nice if they could understand that their anger is grossly misdirected, but it's understandable that they don't.
 
Bellydance Oz

Bellydance Oz

Member
Yes, she's closing it. As Darshiva says, it's incredible - in this day and age - that women are willing to punish a woman for something her husband has done. Aren't we supposed to be individuals these days?

However, yesterday I stumbled on a long thread on Facebook where it all seems to be coming out.

It would appear that for the last few years, some people felt the organisers of Tribalfest had become high-handed, playing favourites and treating performers and teachers with contempt. Some people have felt they've been overlooked, or not paid enough, or had to "bribe" the organisers for a place with gifts and cookies.

Whatever the truth of that - and let's face it, all festivals get their share of participants bitching about the organiser - it would appear these disgruntled people saw this latest issue as the final straw, and that's why they've withdrawn from Tribalfest.
 
Zorba

Zorba

"The Veiled Male"
Interesting...

Ya get a ****storm and you just never know where the pieces are going to land - or what truly happened. The truth is usually "in the middle".

That's too bad.
 
Shanazel

Shanazel

Moderator
Salome's original question was

When someone has talked shit about you a especially when you know and have a relationship with that person - yes it sucks, it hurts, it stings but does it annihilate your very being?
Click to expand...

My answer is: No, though you might want to re-evaluate your relationship with the offending person.

Facts of life as a performer:

No public performance platform is "safe and nurturing."

Anyone who expects to receive unadulterated approbation and respect as a performer is looking for Neverland.

Any dancer performing traditional Raks much less indulging in "experimentation and quite daring, sometimes risque or otherwise edgy performances" can logically expect good manners-challenged members of society to make sexually charged comments about both performance and dancers.



No one died here. No one was raped. There are no pools of blood on the ground. A bunch of guys with nasty attitudes got together to indulge in mean spirited remarks about dancers who performed in a public venue, only to find themselves and those malicious remarks suddenly revealed to the public. Shame on them. Remove offenders from the revenue. Block offenders online. Eschew their company in public. Give the affected dancers a big hug, some moral support, and a few encouraging words.

Then move on.
 
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