what belly dance style is Shakira?

[nicknack]

I don't think she's selling herself as anything, she dances with the songs that people generally dance to. There are just as many singles where she isn't shaking her hips but they seem to be ignored... just look at Illegal, Don't Bother and The One.... I just don't think the English speaking public can reconcile all her differences. Not like Latin America where "No" could easily follow "La Tortura" even though they are not in the same genre.

It is possible for people to be multi faceted.

 

[Aisha Azar]

Shakira

Dear Nicknack,
Sorry but if you do some of the more outrageous things that Shakira and some of the other entertainers do, then you get known for those outrageous things, not for the quality of your voice. She has total control over what she chooses to put before the public. I have seen her in many videos and on talk shows. What I remember the most is that video of her sexing around in the mud. That was her choice and has nothing to do with anything except the way she is choosing to sell herself. Please do not underestimate the intelligence of her audiences by saying that she is "too multifaceted" for them. The American public is not as shallow as everyone thinks.
Regards,
A'isha

 

[nicknack]

I didn't mention the American Public, I said English speaking public, what I meant by that is the public that don't like or know anything outside their frame of reference (some people call them members of the Tory party:tongue. These are not the people who here a song they like and go on to explore Donde Estan Los Ladrones, and Pies Descalzos. And I wouldn't call crawling in the mud "sexing" ones self, she wasn't exactly naked, touching herself or doing anything that dancers don't do on stage. Even my dirty mind that constantly lives in the gutter didn't see anything sexual about playing in the mud (and what with the ocean, mountains, and horses, getting down to the nice muddy earth doesn't seem that unusual). While I do admit that Suerte was used as a marketing tool, I wouldn't say that Shakira has marketed herself as a "hip shaker", just look at the first single from volume 2, and how the album was recieved before HDL was recorded.

And what outrageous things has Shakira done lately?

 

[Aisha Azar]

Shakira

Dear Nicknack,
Well, if you REALLY can't see the sexual significance of crawling around in the mud in the way that Shakira was doing it, then I am not sure what to say. I did not say she was masturbating, which is what your term "sexing onself" brings to mind. There is a huge difference between that and "sexing around". And, yeah,that is pretty outrageous behavior for the camera unless you happen to be a mud wrestler!! One can "sex around" without being overt about it... some messages are much subtler than being naked or touching onself. Americans are the English speaking public for the most part also. It would appear that you are putting a pretty stiff judgement on people that don't care if Shakira sings, what she does, not interested in learning Spanish, etc. They maybe feel the same way about Julio Iglasius or Hakim or Luciano Pavaroti or Odetta, Does not make them narrow minded, merely people who have different tastes than your own.
Get real and admit that she uses sex as a marketing tool. This is not a judgement, just an observation.
Regards,
A'isha

 

[nicknack]

I'm not judging anyone, I was just trying to point out that there are some people who comment on the artist knowing nothing of their background, and not even wanting to hear anything that contradicts the opion they've already formed (which is what annoys me). And everyone uses sex as a marketing tool it's the world we live in. But considering what I see on a daily basis, with advertisments, much more overt performers, and the women on the street (or in the clubs), I just don't see what she does as sexual, sure it can be sexy, but to me it doesn't look like an invitation to sex. This is just my perspective living where I do, what Shakira does in the Suerte video looks innocent compared to the mating rituals I see on a nightly basis.

I wasn't commenting on the US, even though I have family there, I don't have enough experience of the land of the peanut butter m&m to make an accurate observation. When I speak, my frame of reference is this country (and Tel Aviv) that's about it.

Guess this goes to show just how much our surroundings influence how we think.

 

[Lydia]

OOPS i geuss not all video clips from Shakira are making it to the middle east...i have never seen her in the mud!! i geuss what is reaching her is a bit differant...have a nice day Lydia

 

[Moon]

Hi Lydia, I think they're talking about this clip:

 

[Aisha Azar]

Shakira

Dear Lydia,
Yeah, nothing at all sexual in content going on there, hunh?
Regards,
A'isha

 

[Moon]

"Electrocuted style".....by that are you referrring to the fast, vibrational(read shimmy) move that involves her torso and pelvis? That style belongs to urban dance scene popularized by music videos but originated by African-American social dance. It's roots can still be found in many West African Dance styles.
Yasmine

OOps, I didn't mean to offend anyone.
I mean, for example in this clip, I don't like her dancing at all, but with electrocuted style I mean what she does from 2.47 till 3.17. Maybe it's especially that crazy "ooooh I'm so sexy"-look on her face that annoys me. I just really don't like her dancing, sorry.

 

[sedoniaraqs]

(This post is not drected solely at A'isha, despite using her quote.)

So what, I wonder, makes a person a bellydancer? What is that fine line a person must cross from being someone who dances in their spare time to being able to say "I'm a bellydancer"?

Is there a certain number of performances one must do? Is the title only for the pros who earn a living from dancing, or are students also entitled to add "bellydancer" to the list of things-they-are?

Regarding Shakira, she obviously has a huge love of the dance, and appears to have studied it (given the sheer number of different clips in which she uses BD movement), so what makes her less of a bellydancer than, say, any of the non-professional dancers (are we even considered bellydancers?) on this very forum? Is it simply because she fuses bellydance with other danceforms, or what? And if a 'true' bellydancer did the same, would she be stripped of the "bellydancer" title?

*runs from exploding can o'worms*

Gwinity, your post isn't an exploding can of worms; to be that it would have to actually relate in some way to what is being discussed here.

We are talking about dance genres and what defines them; not whether only persons of X experience level can call themselves a belly dancer. Perhaps you made an irrational connection to other, unrelated events in your life; people do this all the time. Back up and reread what is being written here.

A'isha and many of us here consider belly dancing to be a dance with a particular cultural context in addition to a particular movement vocabulary and musicality. I really like A'isha's idea that dance is more than the sum of its movements.

Shakira may actually BE a belly dancer -- as I have no idea how or what she dances off camera from her music videos. However, she isn't belly dancing in her music videos, although she does execute (very nicely sometimes) some movements that are also used in belly dance.

Sedonia

 

[Aniseteph]

I got the impression that Gwinity was just looking at it from a different angle and asking an innocent question - if Shakira is not to be regarded as a belly dancer then what does makes someone a belly dancer?

Am I being staggeringly naive here...?

 

[gwinity]

I got the impression that Gwinity was just looking at it from a different angle and asking an innocent question - if Shakira is not to be regarded as a belly dancer then what does makes someone a belly dancer?

Am I being staggeringly naive here...?

Aniseteph, that's exactly what I was asking, and in this thread it is absolutely related to the topic at hand.

 

[Babylonia]

I never considered Shakira a bellydancer and I don't think she's ever declared herself to be. What she is is a musical artist of Lebanese and Columbian heritage. I can only imagine that she grew up with some middle Eastern musical/dance influences and it has shaped her performances. Since we're all here we know how wonderful and magical bellydance moves are, once you start dancing that way you use those moves no matter what style/genre the music is as long as you can dance to it. You want to spread your love of bellydance everywhere you go.

I'm not that much into her music but I do think she's very talented. Besides singing and dancing I've seen her play guitar and I believe she writes at least some of her own music. :clap:

 

[Aisha Azar]

Shakira

Dear Aniseteph,
I think several posters including me, have attempted to answer the question for Gwinity, referring to the cultural element that makes the dance what it is, and as one of the big reasons why Shakira is not belly dancing in the videos. It IS an innocent and intelligent question and I don't see anyone coming down on her for it here.
Regards,A'isha

I got the impression that Gwinity was just looking at it from a different angle and asking an innocent question - if Shakira is not to be regarded as a belly dancer then what does makes someone a belly dancer?

Am I being staggeringly naive here...?

 

[Ariella]

One of the many reasons why I have so much respect for Shakira is that she doesn't call herself a bellydancer. There are perforers much farther from bellydance that call themselves bellydancers nonetheless.
The other thing to consider - yes, shakira is an excellent dancer, but she's not the one organizing the dance moves we see her executing in these youtube videos. Her coreographer is the one adding the bellydance esque moves we see.

 

[Suheir]

I remember reading somewhere that Bozenka of the BDSS was Shakira's choreographer - whether she choreographed one routine for her or more than that, I have no idea. It may not even be true!

 

[gisela]

OOps, I didn't mean to offend anyone.
I mean, for example in this clip, I don't like her dancing at all, but with electrocuted style I mean what she does from 2.47 till 3.17. Maybe it's especially that crazy "ooooh I'm so sexy"-look on her face that annoys me. I just really don't like her dancing, sorry.

sorry if this is off track. just a quick note that the dancing between 2.47 and 3.17 s the part which I like the best since it's actually dancing and with ( i would think) some references to the west african dances Yasmine mentioned. The rest of the vid is just backbends, walking around sexy and pressing her body against Jay-Z. (However i like beyoncé)
(Sorry sorry again, i think it's off topic:redface

 

[Moon]

Well yes I never said I like the rest of the clip :lol:
I think Beyoncé has a good voice, but I don't like her music style. Also not the way she walks and dances in the clips. I've seen an interview with her once on tv and she seemed a very nice person to me. I just don't like the "sexy" behaviour, I think Shakira is a better example for young girls (though maybe not in the whenever wherever clip)

 

[Yasmine Bint Al Nubia]

sorry if this is off track. just a quick note that the dancing between 2.47 and 3.17 s the part which I like the best since it's actually dancing and with ( i would think) some references to the west african dances Yasmine mentioned. The rest of the vid is just backbends, walking around sexy and pressing her body against Jay-Z. (However i like beyoncé)
(Sorry sorry again, i think it's off topic:redface

Hi Gisela and Moon, You're not off track and I'm not offended by an honest opinion. One doesn't have to like every orm of entertainment. But Gisela you did answer for me however, so thanks. Tying this back to the thread,I think it's important to ask questions so we can determine what is being seen. As Sedonia points out, being aware of other dance genres helps us identify what we are seeing. The key is the MUSIC. Shakira and Beyonce both dance to theatricalizd versions of common dance moves. Salsa, Rhumba, Hip-Hop,Funk are the musical foundation for the steps not the other way around.
Yasmine

 

[sstacy123]

In my first 5 week session of bd my instructor told us that we were bellydancers...well I really don't go around calling myself a bellydancer (people might think I'm good) but that really stuck with me and I believed her! It's funny I just got through reading an interview with Shakira which she had said the Latin people understood her and that she was surprised when she was compared to Britney in America and Britain. And I'll admit when I first saw the video Whenever, Whereever (Suerte) that was my first impression, that she was trying to be like Britney and Christina...now I have changed my mind and I don't believe that at all. To me she is truly an artist (and I believe she has wrote many songs) and very intelligent. She does do sexy things but that's not what it is all about and if people can't see that it is because they haven't take the time to look beyond that(IMHO). But as for bellydancing I think she IS a bellydancer, though she is not bellydancing on stage, she uses bd movements. Bellydancing isn't her occupation. I read she started classes as a child to get in touch with her Lebanese heritage and was actually quite obsessed with it and that at less than five years of age she had to get up and dance when she heard the doumbek playing.