what belly dance style is Shakira?

[Moon]

A'sha, that sounds like exactly the right word for that kind of behaviour, I must remember that one :clap:

 

[nicknack]

Good job I'm going to be under the humanities faculty and not social sciences because I should have remembered that word:lol:

 

[Aisha Azar]

Shakira

Dear Nicknack,
I did take some anthropology classes in college. When I was younger, I wanted to be a paleoanthropologist, but never did get anywhere nearly far enough along those lines of study. I am, however, still fascinated by old dead guys!!
Regards,
A'isha

 

[sstacy123]

I could be wrong but I'd be willing to bet money that more people know who Shakira is then those bellydancers you named...I know I couldn't name ONE bellydancer prior to becoming involved in it...and I was having to explain to one of the girls in the class who Morocco was just the other day...

Dear Nicknack,
Believe it or not, not everyone knows who Shakira is either. She is popular with certain age groups, not known throughout all groups, anymore than those dancers names are known.

 

[Aisha Azar]

Shakira

Dear Stacy,
Are you making it into some kind if contest? My point with that list of names was not how well known they are, but that these are people who are doing quality authentic dance. More people may know Shakira within certain circles, but there are some people who do not know who she is, nor do they care. She is mainstream entertainment here, but let me assure you that some people know their belly dancers just like we know our pop stars, okay? Maybe among the people you know, nobody knows belly dancers, but in plenty of places they do. The whole world does not revolve around what you or I care about. It really depends on the culture. In some countries both belly dance and Shakira videos are banned and people may or may not know about either. The point is not who is more famous, it is the relevance of the medium to people's lives, okay? There are places where you can say Soheir Zaki and get way more response than you do if you say Shakira, because you might be talking about the next door neighbor for all they know. Sorry, but she is not the foremost thought on everyone's mind. We need to be looking at things a little more macrocosmically, here.
A'isha

 

[sstacy123]

Responses in bold

Dear Stacy,
Are you making it into some kind if contest? I don't know, however you would like to look at it.My point with that list of names was not how well known they are, but that these are people who are doing quality authentic dance. But wasn't the discussion about getting BD out to the public? It doesn't matter how good the quality is if people don't know who they are.More people may know Shakira within certain circles, but there are some people who do not know who she is, nor do they care. No doubt.She is mainstream entertainment here, but let me assure you that some people know their belly dancers just like we know our pop stars, okay? No assurance is necessary Maybe among the people you know, nobody knows belly dancers, but in plenty of places they do. The whole world does not revolve around what you or I care about. Well gosh, it sure would be nice if it did but I learned that cold fact a long time agoIt really depends on the culture. In some countries both belly dance and Shakira videos are banned and people may or may not know about either. The point is not who is more famous, it is the relevance of the medium to people's lives, okay? Okay, but I don't think a bellydancer that people haven't heard of is very relevant to their livesThere are places where you can say Soheir Zaki and get way more response than you do if you say Shakira, because you might be talking about the next door neighbor for all they know. Obviously. Sorry, but she is not the foremost thought on everyone's mind. Who said she was? We need to be looking at things a little more macrocosmically, here.
A'isha

And just for clarification, I love Shakira and like I said I consider her a bellydancer even if she is not bellydancing on stage but do I think Shakira should be the mascot for bellydancing? No, but she does bring it to the attention of the public.

 

[Aisha Azar]

Shakira

Responses in bold



And just for clarification, I love Shakira and like I said I consider her a bellydancer even if she is not bellydancing on stage but do I think Shakira should be the mascot for bellydancing? No, but she does bring it to the attention of the public.

Dear Stacey,
When people make remarks like, "Shakira is more well known that so and so belly dancer", they are making a statement that they can not really relate to anything other than their own personal experience. I knew who Fifi Abdou was way before Shakira was even around. So do millions of Arabs throughout the Arab world. She has been working for at least 30 years and is extremely well known in her own corner of the world. To not recognize that might make me wonder if the larger picture was being considered.

As far as Shakira getting "belly dance" out to the public, she would have to first BE belly dancing. Her use of movement that some mistake for belly dancing is a double edged sword. Since she is not belly dancing, she gives people a false idea of what the dance is and that is NOT a positive thing, as some of the dancers on this forum have already testified to.

Regards,
A'isha

 

[sstacy123]

Yes, I make that statement from my personal experience but you don't know how limited or how broad that experience is. The world is getting smaller and smaller everyday. But I never said it was a fact more people knew Shakira than bellydancers, just that I would bet money on it. I'm perfectly willing to admit I could be wrong. I think most have agreed she is not "bellydancing" but several seem to feel like she does BD moves. I think it's a shame that the other bellydancers don't get more recognition but even with any false ideas people may have I think more good is probably being done by generating interest in bellydance...ah, look at me I have a Spanish test in a couple of hours and here I am debating about Shakira when I should be studying.
STACY

Dear Stacey,
When people make remarks like, "Shakira is more well known that so and so belly dancer", they are making a statement that they can not really relate to anything other than their own personal experience. I knew who Fifi Abdou was way before Shakira was even around. So do millions of Arabs throughout the Arab world. She has been working for at least 30 years and is extremely well known in her own corner of the world. To not recognize that might make me wonder if the larger picture was being considered.

As far as Shakira getting "belly dance" out to the public, she would have to first BE belly dancing. Her use of movement that some mistake for belly dancing is a double edged sword. Since she is not belly dancing, she gives people a false idea of what the dance is and that is NOT a positive thing, as some of the dancers on this forum have already testified to.

Regards,
A'isha

 

[taheya]

Hi all, i dont actually think that shakira does a good thing for bellydance, I think what she does is so far from what true bellydance is that what she portrays is not a good image. I dont think that any publicity is good publicity in this case. From what i have seen she can isolate movements but she has no sense of what goes with certain bits of music. She looks crude and jerky to me, not a good combo!!
Not to mention she doesnt dance to the right music...Saying that she is a good singer, i think she should stick to that, but the dancing is sort of what helps her sell records...she is viewed by the mass media as a belly dancer but the learned eye can see she clearly is not.

 

[Moon]

But did she ever claim to be a bellydancer? If not, I think it's the public's own fault to think she is one. Or maybe Shakira should tell the audience just before the start of every concert that she isn't a bellydancer.

 

[sstacy123]

From what i have seen she can isolate movements but she has no sense of what goes with certain bits of music. She looks crude and jerky to me, not a good combo!!
Not to mention she doesnt dance to the right music...Saying that she is a good singer, i think she should stick to that, but the dancing is sort of what helps her sell records...she is viewed by the mass media as a belly dancer but the learned eye can see she clearly is not.

Well I for one would like to see how she bellydances-not what she does on stage at concerts-I've been there, seen that, but if she just danced bellydance. I don't think it is fair to judge her bellydancing ability based on what she does on stage in concert.

 

[RioDancerCO]

Poor Violeetsidhe,
I think you've stumbled onto a hot topic! I don't watch TV so it took me a while to hear about Shakira's 'Hips Don't Lie' video. I had just done a performance for a group of brand new beginner belly dancers (all suitably impressed) who then wanted to know if I could do some move that Shakira does. Naturally, I drew a blank When I finally watched the video I did a running commentary (much to the amusement of my guy friends) listing the move that she almost did. Basically, her posture is not good for either style (primarily because her back is very arched, instead of having her tail bone tucked) and her moves, while fun to watch are not precise enough to actually be a belly dance move. The attitude with which she dances would come closest to cabaret. Tribal tends to be more about the interplay between fellow dancers and musicians and cabaret (which has its origins more in Hollywood) features more solos or... I want to call it seductive styling. (Not to imply that tribal can't be really hot!)

 

[Violeetsidhe]

wow it has grown since last i looked in... belly dance is a very precise style of dance... this is as scary as debates i've seen over ballet wow

 

[KuteNurse]

I just attended a BD performance where a dancer performed to Shakira. It was a combo of many kinds of dance, mostly hip-hop and belly dance. It was fun to watch however.

 

[Perizada]

two comments:

1) before shakira became popular, i was compared to strippers, harem girls, and whores in general, just for belly dancing. granted i did go to a horribly cliquish high school in a small town at the time, but i'll still gladly take a comparison to shakira than to a stripper any day.

2) i don't exactly understand how 'belly dancer' is being defined on this forum. from what i gather, it's someone who dances to middle easter music, and only traditional belly dance/raks sharqi/etc movements and transitons?

My point was and still is that Shakira does not do a style of belly dance.
She incorporates some movement that might be found in belly dance when performed with the right posture,music, spirit, cultural essence, etc.
Regards,
A'isha

i don't mean to attack this, but it kind of bothered me. i'm pigeontoed, which effects my posture when i dance, so it's slightly off from the rest of the people i dance with. does that make me less of a dancer? does dancing to punk and pop music when i'm practicing or with my friends make me less of a belly dancer?

 

[Zumarrad]

Tribal tends to be more about the interplay between fellow dancers and musicians and cabaret (which has its origins more in Hollywood) features more solos or... I want to call it seductive styling. (Not to imply that tribal can't be really hot!)

I'm sorry, but I have to comment here. Oriental dance does NOT have its origins in Hollywood. It has its origins in the Middle East. What you might call "cabaret" - if you mean belly dance by a soloist to ME music in a bedleh - is pretty much traceable straight back to Cairo in the early part of the 20th century. There are some western influences - the two piece costuming, the balletic elements - but it does not originate in Hollywood.

Conversely, tribal dance has its origins more in San Francisco, which is a lot closer to Hollywood than Cairo or Beirut. Just saying.

 

[sedoniaraqs]

Thanks Zumarrad. I was thinking the same thing yesterday when I read this, but didn't have the mental energy to compose a response.

Sedonia

I'm sorry, but I have to comment here. Oriental dance does NOT have its origins in Hollywood. It has its origins in the Middle East. What you might call "cabaret" - if you mean belly dance by a soloist to ME music in a bedleh - is pretty much traceable straight back to Cairo in the early part of the 20th century. There are some western influences - the two piece costuming, the balletic elements - but it does not originate in Hollywood.

Conversely, tribal dance has its origins more in San Francisco, which is a lot closer to Hollywood than Cairo or Beirut. Just saying.

 

[sedoniaraqs]

two comments:

2) i don't exactly understand how 'belly dancer' is being defined on this forum. from what i gather, it's someone who dances to middle easter music, and only traditional belly dance/raks sharqi/etc movements and transitons?

i don't mean to attack this, but it kind of bothered me. i'm pigeontoed, which effects my posture when i dance, so it's slightly off from the rest of the people i dance with. does that make me less of a dancer? does dancing to punk and pop music when i'm practicing or with my friends make me less of a belly dancer?

Perizada, welcome to the forum. Before you get offended, please the thread in its entirety. There is not a forum-wide definition of belly dance, which is why we have many discussions and debates on the subject. Some of us, like myself and A'isha, think that belly dance has a essential cultural context. This does not mean that dancing that, to us, falls outside of this context is bad, just that it is something different.

So, no, small individual issues like being pigeontoed does not make someone "not a belly dancer". Rather, overall posture reflects nuances of cultural body language that are important in the dance. And yes, when you are dancing to punk rock with your friends, I would say that particular dancing is not belly dance, which is different than saying you are not a goood dancer, or not a belly dancer.

Sedonia

 

[sstacy123]

two comments:

2) i don't exactly understand how 'belly dancer' is being defined on this forum.

That is a question I've asked what people consider a bellydancer and though I'm sure someone will say they have answered that question I don't recall having seen it. There has been plenty of discussion about what is bellydance but not who is a bellydancer...that's why people keep saying Shakira is not a bellydancer but I don't see how people can say that based on what she does on stage because just because she doesn't "bellydance" on stage doesn't mean she doesn't bellydance at home or wherever...and in my definition based on what I know of her I consider her a bellydancer...and I don't think you have to be good to be a bellydancer. (Not that I'm saying she wouldn't be good)

 

[sedoniaraqs]

That is a question I've asked what people consider a bellydancer and though I'm sure someone will say they have answered that question I don't recall having seen it. There has been plenty of discussion about what is bellydance but not who is a bellydancer...

Check the threads entitled "belly dancing vs. not belly dancing" started by me, and "your definition of belly dance".

that's why people keep saying Shakira is not a bellydancer but I don't see how people can say that based on what she does on stage because just because she doesn't "bellydance" on stage doesn't mean she doesn't bellydance at home or wherever...and in my definition based on what I know of her I consider her a bellydancer...and I don't think you have to be good to be a bellydancer. (Not that I'm saying she wouldn't be good)

actually I made this point on the bottom of page 3 of this thread.

Sedonia