Teaching more than just dancing...

Amanda (was Aziyade)

Well-known member
Spin of from the Zack thread. I'm paraphrasing:

Charity wrote:
but no we havent learned anything about the dance history, just learning choreography for a performance. we just have fun with it, i really enjoy the class. just last nite we did so much practice on each individual move i was hurting by the time i got home.

in the beginning she basically laid it out for us though. she said- and i accept- that hey what we like we take from here and there. thats why its called ethno fusion.


and

right now i know i will never perform, if i did i would definitely take the history and culture more seriously.

my teacher does allow room for questions and answers. she is very good about that. but again, she accomodates to us and what we want out of the class, she even had us fill out a questionnaire and she goes off of that as to what will be incorporated into the class.



And A'isha posed the question:

If you were learning, say, ballet, or math, or pottery, or any other thing, would you expect the instructor to tailor the class to your desires or to teach you what is important and what you need to know as a person who wants to learn the subject?

and Taheya said:

i can see what you mean about this style of teaching may be 'meeting the demands of the students' at the same time it is superficial and you really are not getting the whole story, so your teacher is doing you a disservice.

and Shanazel said:


I have some sympathy for the view held by Charity's teacher, which apparently includes the truth of supply and demand. She is supplying a service, to put it in the most unromantic terms, and the women paying for this service would not pay for it if she offered something they didn't want, that is to say a serious cultural experience in belly dance.

So now we're up to speed here.
 
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Amanda (was Aziyade)

Well-known member
So here's my thought. As a teacher I feel it's my repsonsibility to not only make the class fun, but to also make it a real DANCE class and not just an exercise class. My goal for my students is to get them to really feel like they can DANCE as a means of personal self-expression.

I'm not training performers right now. Just people who want to be able to have FUN with dance.

I have to sneak in a bit of exercise here and there, to get them to manage stomach control or sharpening and speeding up shimmies and hip work, and I'm trying to introduce them to four basic rhythms.

But the catch is, I have four hours (sometimes five hours) a MONTH -- one hour a week -- to teach them what I think is important. And in my estimation, pretty much EVERYTHING is important. So how I decide what gets taught first? You know?

In beginner classes we spend a lot of time on posture and alignment. We drill single isolations and work steps into combos. We do upper body "musical interpretation" to ney taqsims, along with a gentle warmup and cooldown. I teach a couple of new "moves" each week, and we review old ones.

That doesn't leave much room for anything else.

I once asked (and I may revive that thread) how long your beginner sessions last. I guess a better question would be this:

How long do you teach a new beginners class, and what are your students supposed to have learned in that time? (movements, music, rhythms, culture, etc.)

Charity -- can you tell us how long you've been taking classes with this teacher? I think that might make a difference in how we view it. Thank you!

Keeping in mind that we often have to repeat things numerous times before students remember them, how much can we hope to teach in a month or 3 months or 6 months?

I recognize that if students stick with you for more than 3-4 months, they're likely to stick with it a year. And if they stick with it a year, they're likely to stick with it for 2 years, etc.

So if you have a 4-week class, with no guarantees that your students will sign up for another 4-weeks, what do you want those students to walk away with? What kind of info do they need?

I'm thinking of having an "exit speech" at the end of each 4-weeks, just to make sure my students realize that bellydance isn't about sex or turning on the boys or whatever. And that they know this is a gift we have been given by people who aren't always free to dance like we are, and so we should cherish that gift. That's, at the very very least, what I want my ladies to walk away with.
 

Aisha Azar

New member
Teaching etc.

Dear Aziyade,
I found the 8 week time line to be a problem, too, so my beginning class is a year long. Some people come and go. I started out with about 17 in September,when the session actually starts. Right now I have about 12, MOST of whom started in September.
My beginners get lots of drilling on fundamental movements and the dynamics of posture. They get introduced to rythms and sagat. They learn a choreography to Beledi rythm... and then they learn it again with finger cymbals!! (That way they are not trying to learn movement while learning to play!) We discuss how the music and the dance are the same thing. They watch videos of dancers in the style they are learning, and then in styles they are not learning, in order for us to look for differences, etc. They get cultural info and anecdotes liberally sprinkled throughout. They get GOSSIP about Fifi and Suheir, and other big stars because I want dancers to be human to them. This dance is after all, a most human dance form.
I have no "intermediate" class at all. I have beginning and continuing classes only. In continuing belly dance, we get a LOT more formal cultural info than we get in beginning, but there is still no reason why it can't be fun! The dance itself is a LOT about fun! Both continuing and beginning are very flexible and I can move along at a pace that best suits the class.
Regards,
A'isha
 

Yshka

New member
Hi Aziyade,
nice idea to spin off from the Zack thread in this way. I just read the entire thread (haven't been able to do much forum-reading lately) and I think what A'isha said in the final posts is a great way to teach.

A'isha Azar said:
I do point out that the beginner student may not necessarily care what the cultural background of the dance is, but that it is possible to give them a continual feed of information in small doses,and in fun ways. Cultural knowledge and fun can and do go hand in hand. Cultural knowledge does not have to be given out in some serious lectural tone, but can be taught as part of the dance from the beginning. What is it about the word "knowledge" that tends to make people think that something of a drag is about to happen? You can be a responsible teacher and still have fun, and make the classes fun for your students. I think the best teachers do! Not only that, but some of the most fun people I have ever met are Arabs, and there are many cultural anecdotes to share with a class that gives them a taste for who the people are and what the dance is.

My teacher does this also and it works very well for everyone. Information in terms of cultural background, music, dance styles, etc. that you do need if you want to become educated about the dance or become a pro are (if the time is right) given in more elaborate explanation, but most is given in during class or whenever a subject comes up, in small doses, and in ways which seem to get even the most uninterested students to learn from.

In beginners, she teaches moves, works on correct alignment and posture, drills technique and isolations, works the moves into combinations and lets the students explore those themselves in a bit of free improv time. My teacher does however make very clear where the moves come from, which style etc. She slips in facts and bits of info about those styles, the moves, the music that is played, ways of expression and so on. It is, like A'isha said, taught as a part of the dance.

People seem to learn anyway: the ones that are just there for the fun of it and the excercise seem to like hearing it, and the ones that are really interested are able to get all the information they want/need. Everyone is free to ask questions, ask for more information, or for example get recommendations for resources to learn about the dances more in depth.

This way I feel she does both the dances AND the students justice, it's a big advantage. We know what we are doing, we know where it's coming from and misconceptions are dismantled early on.

The ethno-fusion thing Charity talked about in the Zack thread made me think about the entire thing. It might be easier and "suit the student's needs" and I kind of see Shanazel's point on this, but here's my view:

I've been dancing with this woman (teacher described above) for 4 years now, and having been to a lot of workshops and courses with other teachers along the way, I've come to realise that I am blessed with a very generous, giving teacher.
Some just leave out the info and teach only moves, some teachers don't teach moves they use onstage or things that make their style characteristic. I could give even more examples of what many people do or don't do.
I've discovered that if I am not informed of what it is I'm learning, I am really not learning. This goes for the more-established styles of Oriental dance (whether it is, say, Lebanese à la Nadia Gamal, American Cabaret or Turkish Rom), but also for fusion. How can one learn any fusion and say it is fusion if it is unclear what is fused? IMO a dance is a dance by what makes this dance characteristic in ways of cultural feeling, background and the context of movement. It is not a dance because someone just happens to state it is this or that. Especially if one teaches dance, one needs at least to be able to explain WHAT it is they're doing and know what makes the dance what it is.

I've started to teach a beginners class recently, by filling in for my teacher every now and then. I have learned a lot from her and use this method as well. I hope this will help me become a good teacher one day.

Oops.. long post, what can I say? This subject just gets to me.
 
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Maria_Aya

New member
My opinion is this:
If someone wants exercize better go to a gym;)
I dont accept students unless they are determine to LEARN the dance.
Thats why 60% of my students at my begining class have behind them 2-3 years with other teachers and they have reached a wall that they cant pass.
Both cases, begingers with no teaching before and beginers with experience find the beginer class, begining as I do total different style (arabian) and teaching with a total different concept.
For privite lessons they have to book 20 to accept them, and now have a waiting list for next November.
The beginer class is 10 months. Nope they dont stay all, but I dont mind, I just love to teach the ones that stay at the end. But its 12 hours per month.
At the end of the year they know:
All the basic movements, basic combinations, to recognize (and give it a try to dance) Baladi, Saidi, Saaby. They learn traditions and cultural things.
Basic veil, assaya and geometry of choreography is included.
They know Fifi, Mona, Nagua, Suheir, Dina, to recognize the other styles beside arabian.
After the 1st class its a continuation.
I know they say I'm a bitch lol, but at least we are bitches united in the love of oriental dance.

Maria Aya:cool:
 

Yshka

New member
I have to post again lol, I agree with what A'isha has stated above. We do have an intermediate group. After this class we also have an advanced/continuing class in which special skills are adressed, different styles are explored more in depth, and sagath are introduced (in the Netherlands sagath are mostly introduced after a few years of dance). Advanced gets more information than beginners as well, though it's still fun.

All beginners classes learn choreography. All groups get sessions for watching video material and receiving more information about the dance and all that comes with, everyone is free to attend but most do.

A'isha Azar said:
They get cultural info and anecdotes liberally sprinkled throughout. They get GOSSIP about Fifi and Suheir, and other big stars because I want dancers to be human to them. This dance is after all, a most human dance form.
My teacher does this too. It's part of the fun also, don't you think;) ?
I guess it's not hard to tell that I am happy with my teacher huh?:lol:

Maria Aya said:
I know they say I'm a bitch lol, but at least we are bitches united in the love of oriental dance.
Amen :)
 
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da Sage

New member
My beginners get lots of drilling on fundamental movements and the dynamics of posture. They get introduced to rythms and sagat. They learn a choreography to Beledi rythm... and then they learn it again with finger cymbals!! (That way they are not trying to learn movement while learning to play!)

OMG, that is a brilliant idea. Brilliant!:clap:


Dear da Sage,
Thank you. I LOVE to teach. I feel that it is really the most important thing I do in the dance, though I am a performer, artistic, director of a dance company, costumer, researcher, and writer. My whole premise in teaching is to look at what is good for the dance and what is good for the student. What will be the easiest way for them to do all of the zillion things they must learn to do in order to became a dancer? I call my teaching method Student Awareness Based Teaching. I take the time to really try to figure out what will be the most beneficial way to present material to my students, and then experiment with it until I get it right! That method of learning cymbals seems to be more effective than other methods I have tried.
Regards,
A'isha
 
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da Sage

New member
What should be offered in a beginning bellydance class? My opinion:

Basic posture and dance movements.
Warm up and strengthening exercises, to prepare for dance.
Information about the local dance community and events.
Exposure to authentic Middle-Eastern music.
Real mastery of some basic movements, and positive reinforcement so that the students feel confident in dancing them.
Exposure to some less basic movements and layering, so that even beginner students get a sense of the complexity of the dance.

I think those are the bare bones. Much can be added, but omitting any one of these basics is a real disservice to the student.
 

Yshka

New member
LOl, I noticed I made a mistake, the video sessions are not FOR free;) they are free to be attended however. The sessions are a part of the class schedule like the other classes. just wanted to add. I like Da Sage's plan of what should be taught in beginners. They are most of the things a class should offer IMO.
 

Amanda (was Aziyade)

Well-known member
Okay, exposure to authentic ME music --

any suggestions for specific recordings?

I have hundreds, but what are some good EVEN-TEMPO songs for drills in class? I end up using Arab pop most of the time because if I use the stuff I really like, the tempo and rhythms changes make the songs hard to drill with and repeat movements/combos with.

I use Sallam Allay a lot, and a Ghawazee track off Alexandria's self-made CDs. I'd like to have more than just a Saidi sound though.

FWIW -- I'm currently experimenting with using Neena and Veena's CDs for class choreos because all the songs are pretty simple, short, and there's a good variety of sounds on each one.
 

Aisha Azar

New member
Teaching, etc

OOPs!! Don't know what I did wrong, but this showed up as part of da Sage's message, so I thought I should redo!!


OMG, that is a brilliant idea. Brilliant!:clap:


Dear da Sage,
Thank you. I LOVE to teach. I feel that it is really the most important thing I do in the dance, though I am a performer, artistic director of a dance company, costumer, researcher,and writer. My whole premise in teaching is to look at what is good for the dance and what is good for the student. What will be the easiest way for them to do all of the zillion things they must learn to do in order to become a dancer? I call my teaching method Student Awareness Based Teaching. I take the time to really try to figure out what will be the most beneficial way to present material to my students, and then experiment with it until I get it right! That method of learning cymbals seems to be more effective than other methods I have tried.
Regards,
A'isha
 
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Aisha Azar

New member
Teaching, etc.

Dear Aziyade,
Many of Jalilah Zamora's pieces have very long sections of rythm that remains the same tempo-wise and can still effectively show the complexity of the music. Spectacular Rythms from the Middle East is another good teaching one with many rythms and tempos. Belly Dance: Mohamed Abdel Wahab has some good stuff with long sections. I can't remember if its Samirah or Samarah, but that one is good. Belly dance around Egypt has some fun stuff on it. For my continuing students, I use things like Hani Mahenna's version of Meshal, more complex stuff from Jalilah's series, Princess of Cairo, Suhier Zaki in Germany. These are a few of my favorite teaching tools. As you can guess, these are for Egyptian belly dance.
Regards,
A'isha
 

elle21

New member
Okay, exposure to authentic ME music --

any suggestions for specific recordings?

I have hundreds, but what are some good EVEN-TEMPO songs for drills in class? I end up using Arab pop most of the time because if I use the stuff I really like, the tempo and rhythms changes make the songs hard to drill with and repeat movements/combos with.

Hi guys, long time no posts (stupid internet providers :mad: ) but I've been using Hossam Ramzy's bedouin tribal CD for drilling and have been thinking about what a perfect CD it would be for classes, as the music's not too 'heavy' but very rhythmic. It also contains a variety of speeds and rhythms for whatever you want to drill. I was discussing with a friend who teaches whether it might be a sneaky way to expose the newbie's ear to arabic sounds without overwhelming them completely?
 

Aisha Azar

New member
More, etc.

Dear Group,
I think we also should recognize that there are many, many good teaching methods out there. Some address specifics and some are more general in nature. My dear friend Ne Kajira Janan takes a very much more intellectual and sort of scientific approach to teaching than I do. My approach is very organized, but more, maybe, visceral. Together we make a great teaching team. Our teaching styles are different, yet we both are pretty effective teachers. We have co-taught several times and it was always a very rewarding experience for me, and I hope, her, too. Ne Kajira works on something called Rules of Three, which is an approach that disucsses general ways in which the body moves through space, and can applied to any movement form. I teach based on movement and essence for specific styles of dance. Both teaching methods are good and do what they are supposed to do. We come from different fundamental bases, but end up in the same place!
(BTW, she is mostly retired now, but any dancers in fusion or American styles should DEFINATELY take a class from her if the chance arises!!)
Regards,
A'isha
 
Hi Everyone, Boy I've been away too long! Thanks Aziyade for bringng up this topic. As both a student and a teacher, I can say that my learning needs do change over time. In the beginning I was more concerned about the moves since I'm not native to the culture. Just as I mastered the moves then I realized I needed to learn about the music, then the culture, then costuming and so on and so on...I'm sure it is the same for most students. Additionally, my learning style evolved too. I'm primary a visual learner with two dimensional thinking...I've evolved to use many styles of learning a multi-dimensional thinking(meaning I recognize there more than one thing happening at the same time). Brand new students from Western cultures approach the dance in linear fashion, first A then B then C and so on. It's difficult for these types of learners to accept a whole lot of info at once.

What I've noticed as a teacher, my teaching style has also evolved over time.I understand the importance of using varied teaching styles not only to transmit the info but also try to fit the student's learning styles. With each class I relize that not only do I have to teach the dance(music, culture etc) but also teach students a different way of thinking and learning.
Yasmine
 

charity

New member
i have only been taking classes since april 12. every monday. so thats 5 weeks at this point. right now we are learning a choreography for a beladi.

here is what we are learning

chest lifts/drops/bounce
slides and crescents and circles
head
hip
ribcage
hip lifts/drops
hip side hits
snake arm
body wave
3 point turn
2 point turn
some angled turn that makes me dizzy
shoulder shrugs/rolls/pushes
framing arms

i think that covers it. i have a feeling that in the part 2 class of beginners that we will get into more cultural aspects and that begins in may. .
 

Amanda (was Aziyade)

Well-known member
AH -- this makes TOTAL sense to me now.

In 5 weeks, I can't imagine how much actual cultural/musical/historical knowledge I could pass on to students -- or how much would even sink in.




i have only been taking classes since april 12. every monday. so thats 5 weeks at this point. right now we are learning a choreography for a beladi.

here is what we are learning

chest lifts/drops/bounce
slides and crescents and circles
head
hip
ribcage
hip lifts/drops
hip side hits
snake arm
body wave
3 point turn
2 point turn
some angled turn that makes me dizzy
shoulder shrugs/rolls/pushes
framing arms

i think that covers it. i have a feeling that in the part 2 class of beginners that we will get into more cultural aspects and that begins in may. .
 
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