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  1. #41
    V.I.P. Maria_Aya's Avatar
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    Aisha !!! I just love you !!!

    Maria Aya

  2. #42
    V.I.P. Aisha Azar's Avatar
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    Default DAnce, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maria_Aya View Post
    Aisha !!! I just love you !!!

    Maria Aya


    Dear Aya,
    I love you back!!
    Hugs,
    A'isha

  3. #43
    V.I.P. Kharmine's Avatar
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    Le sigh. To date, we have not yet seen any hard evidence to dispute the fact that "belly dance" is an old slang version of the French danse du ventre that originated in the United States in the 19th century.

    Jodette reportedly first heard 'belly dance" as a term when she was a teen-ager in the Middle East, during World War II from American service personnel. There is nothing on Jodette's web site to claim this, let alone explain it, nor is this comment repeated anywhere else that I can find.

    I do believe one former student heard what she did from Jodette. However, I question that student's interpretation of what Jodette meant by that.

    As we have seen on this thread and on her own web site, Jodette was, and still is, prone to exaggeration and rather mangled English (whether or not she really is guilty of shoddy business practices is, I suppose, still a question). It's hard to know if Jodette meant anything by this comment other than as a personal observation of when she first heard the term 'belly dance."

    How this one comment, interpreted in a unique way by one person, is supposed to be clinching evidence that "belly dance" didn't exist as a term in the U.S. before then is a huge stretch and, as yet, not backed up -- even though I have suggested several ways by which that could be researched.
    Last edited by Kharmine; 05-07-2007 at 05:30 PM.

  4. #44
    Senior Member sedoniaraqs's Avatar
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    What I'm curious about are the photos in the gallery and elsewhere on Jodette's website. Who is this woman??http://www.jodettes.com/photogallery/

    One photo near the bottom is Sausan, but the others are....who??? The implication is that they are Jodette, but some of the photos look very recent, and she is supposed to now be 80 yrs old???!!! If so I want to know her secret, or are these photos of one of her students?

    Sedonia

  5. #45
    V.I.P. Aziyade's Avatar
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    Sedonia,
    From the skinny belts, the mesh pants and the white faux-tulle skirt, I'd say the costume are from the 80s -- maybe closer to early 80s. Would you agree?

    They're studio shots, and a lot of portraits get blurred or shot with a filter to soften fine lines and wrinkles. It could easily be her. I've met a surprising number of over 60-year old dancers who I would have NEVER guessed were that age. Maybe bellydance is good for the skin?


  6. #46
    V.I.P. Kharmine's Avatar
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    Given the example of veterans like Fifi (who owes much to excellent plastic surgery), I'd say you can't judge a dancer's age by her photos!

  7. #47
    V.I.P. Aisha Azar's Avatar
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    Default Jodette Silhi

    My message will not go through without me writing something HERE, so please read the last paragraph for response.


    [QUOTE=Aziyade;29112]
    From the skinny belts, the mesh pants and the white faux-tulle skirt, I'd say the costume are from the 80s -- maybe closer to early 80s. Would you agree?

    They're studio shots, and a lot of portraits get blurred or shot with a filter to soften fine lines and wrinkles. It could easily be her. I've met a surprising number of over 60-year old dancers who I would have NEVER guessed were that age. Maybe bellydance is good for the skin?





    Dear Sedonia and Aziyade,
    They are photos of Jodette. Some are as early as the late 60s or early 70s, because I saw them when I was first learning to dance. I honestly have no explanation for why she does things the way she does. I can only speak for her teaching, which was of great value to me. I would venture to guess that NONE of those photos is recent... is she even teaching still or does she have people teach for her? I am not sure.
    I DID rather laugh at her ad, "Bellydancers available for respectable parties"....I wondered if she had some problems with not so respectable ones!!
    Regards,
    A'isha
    Last edited by Aisha Azar; 05-07-2007 at 07:04 PM.

  8. #48
    V.I.P. Aziyade's Avatar
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    Something happened in the formatting. Let me try and fix this:

    I LOVED Alexandra when I had seen her some 10 years ago doing American Oriental, so I did not go in with any prejudice. I took her workshop and found that she did not give one moment of individual attention, hardly LOOKED at the students and in general just sort of showed us what we were supposed to do; no attention, no feedback, no corrrction, no acknowledgement. I was very disappointed.
    I can't speak to her teaching, but I'll keep your experience in mind if she comes back this way. I saw her do Persian most recently, but it's her older footage I'm referring to also.

    A'isha writes- I think passing it off as authentic belly dance is bad. Nobody hates the dance. We just want truth in advertising.
    Oh, I know But you know I will still call it bellydance. But we've been down that road before and we have to agree to disagree on that terminology.

    A'isha writes- Jillina's performances are not delightful to me. She claimed for too long to be doing something she is not. That is Egyptian belly dance.
    Okay, I didn't know her from anybody when she came to Atlanta, so I guess I didn't have any preconceived notions about what she claimed to be teaching. Is your previous knowledge of what she claimed coloring your opinion of her dancing? Just curious.

    I also do not prefer dancers who are not emotionally attached to what they are doing and she definately has been too attached to physical technique to tune into the reality of the dance as an expression of emotion.
    I don't know if we're seeing the same performances! Part of what really drew me was her energy and how much she seemed to be completely enjoying herself, and that made ME enjoy myself, etc.

    I'm NOT talking about the Superstars performances, because that's a different side of her. I don't think those performances or choreographies are nearly as complex as what she's actually capable of doing, but they don't belong to her, and I can see that I wouldn't want my soul sold on a work-for-hire basis.

    I do not need or want clones, though Jillina might since she is fond of making a line dance out of a dance that is supposed to be a solo dance.
    wait, are you talking about Sahala or the Superstars?

    I honestly can't fault her for doing Sahala group choreos. I LOVE the energy of dancing together with other women. It's an American thing, maybe, but I do enjoy it. And at least with the IAMED shows, it made a nice break between the solo performers. We could argue that Nagwa Fouad did with the dance things it was never supposed to be either -- but she knew what made good theatre.

    There are very few people who will ever make a Lebanese, or Egytian or Turkish dancer. One has to look WAY beneath the element of mere movement for that, and it has to be INSIDE the dancer on some level. This why I will never make a good American Oriental or Lebanese dancer. It is not IN me. I feel it differently than I am supposed to. Jillina misled people by intimating she was doing authentic ethnic belly dance. She never has.
    I see what you're saying. And I know -- was it at the Giza awards, she was voted best Egyptian style dancer? I would not have agreed with that, either.

    For a while I was trying to make a distinction between people who actually dance in the Egyptian style, and people who use Egyptian technique, as taught by either Raqia or Shareen. I mean, I use what I learned from Shareen, because it makes sense and it feels good. But it's not Egyptian style if I'm dancing to old Turkish music!

    A'isha writes- You know, that "heavily influenced by western this or that" is getting to be very tiersome. Regardless of what other influences are there, the fact always, ALWAYS remains that what these dancers and singers and musicians produced was filtered through an Egyptian or Lebanese or Turkish or Algerian or Tunisian or whatever, mind, heart, soul and cultural affiliation, and took on that essence.
    Fair 'nuff. But I guess what I was getting at is that Wahab missed the point of the hoedown music. But he appropriated it for his own ends, and turned it into something lovely. I sort of wanted to make the parallel between that and American Orientale.

    A'isha writes- American Oriental has its own essence, its own beauty and its own validity. However, belly dance is not an American dance. The problem with those classes many years ago and many classes still, is that students are being led to believe that what they are learning is authentic ethnic bellydance when it is not.
    And here's where I hit a brick wall in my understanding. The idea that there is one authentic ethnic bellydance. I just can't wrap my mind around that. Maybe it's just how we define it. I'm convinced the "authenticity" lies in the approach to the dance, and it's authentic Turkish if it takes a certain approach, authentic Lebanese if it takes another ... etc.

    Defining that "approach" is where I'm having the difficulty.

    BUT, I'm also being less restrictive in my definition of bellydance, which I'm basically considering SITA+ hipwork, like we've talked about before.

    AND part of me wonders how long it takes to develop a sense of what is authentic ethnic bellydance. How many teachers have it? How many teachers will develop it? How long does it take for students to figure it out?

    lots o questions, all the time....

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aziyade View Post
    Something happened in the formatting. Let me try and fix this:





    And here's where I hit a brick wall in my understanding. The idea that there is one authentic ethnic bellydance. I just can't wrap my mind around that. Maybe it's just how we define it. I'm convinced the "authenticity" lies in the approach to the dance, and it's authentic Turkish if it takes a certain approach, authentic Lebanese if it takes another ... etc.

    Defining that "approach" is where I'm having the difficulty.

    BUT, I'm also being less restrictive in my definition of bellydance, which I'm basically considering SITA+ hipwork, like we've talked about before.

    AND part of me wonders how long it takes to develop a sense of what is authentic ethnic bellydance. How many teachers have it? How many teachers will develop it? How long does it take for students to figure it out?

    lots o questions, all the time....
    AND... WHO is judging who "has it"????

  10. #50
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    A'isha writes- I was in a show and took a workshop from Alexandra King about 3 years ago. Her Turkish and her Egyptian dances looked just alike in much of the movement content and all of the essence, and I DO have video. I LOVED Alexandra when I had seen her some 10 years ago doing American Oriental, so I did not go in with any prejudice. I took her workshop and found that she did not give one moment of individual attention, hardly LOOKED at the students and in general just sort of showed us what we were supposed to do; no attention, no feedback, no corrrction, no acknowledgement. I was very disappointed.

    I am sorry for your experience A'isha... I have taken MANY workshops from AK, & each time found her fabulous, informative, instructive, with much feed back/plus correction, etc etc.... & would definitely recommend her as an instructor!!!
    what video do you have??? would love to see it... as well as video of you! !

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