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  1. #61
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    my opinion on male belly dancers, the costumes yes need addressing, i think if a woman is expected to uphold cultural traditions than a man must. but then again, modern costume ideas are all derived from a fantasy/hollywood portrayal which is mostly inaccurate. so how is any of it all too accurate?

    and as far as technicalities of dance, lets face it- a man well-trained usually does the same moves better than a woman. they appear more relaxed and more controlled.

    and why a man belly dances? [edit : edited insensitive use of words, very juvenile of me] just a ridiculous question. why dont you just ask him if he's gay? perhaps its equally as offensive and pointless imo.


    P.S.
    confused as to the arabic men/homophobe concept. are these arab men in america perhaps? or this is just in regards to men dancing? who confessed this about being homophobe? or is it an assumption, simple observation in the middle east would suggest otherwise or would you know?

    perhaps you know more than me from experience. not trying to sound confrontational but i am seeking clarification to the statement. isnt such a thing always stereotypical and a generalization to say that on behalf of a few arabs that you may know that most arab men are homophobes?
    Last edited by charity; 05-31-2007 at 09:32 PM.

  2. #62
    V.I.P. Aisha Azar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by charity View Post
    my opinion on male belly dancers, the costumes yes need addressing, i think if a woman is expected to uphold cultural traditions than a man must. but then again, modern costume ideas are all derived from a fantasy/hollywood portrayal which is mostly inaccurate. so how is any of it all too accurate?

    and as far as technicalities of dance, lets face it- a man well-trained usually does the same moves better than a woman. they appear more relaxed and more controlled.

    and why a man belly dances? just a dumb ass question. why dont you just ask him if he's gay? perhaps its equally as offensive and pointless imo.


    P.S.
    confused as to the arabic men/homophobe concept. are these arab men in america perhaps? or this is just in regards to men dancing? who confessed this about being homophobe? or is it an assumption, simple observation in the middle east would suggest otherwise or would you know?

    perhaps you know more than me from experience. not trying to sound confrontational but i am seeking clarification to the statement. isnt such a thing always stereotypical and a generalization to say that on behalf of a few arabs that you may know that most arab men are homophobes?

    Dear Charity,
    First, the costume that people keep referring to as inspired by Hollywood has been around as long as belly dance has been a dance. It IS the traditional costume style. Gelebiyahs and Assuit and other national costume elements were used in folkloric dance, and only leter were sometimes used in belly dance, which is barely 100 years old. However, these days, the two piece bra/belt with full circle skirt and veil ensemble is almost passe, a product of the 60s and 70s more than anything else. Is not really so much the fashion as it once was. Belly dance costumes coming out of Egypt and Turkey are now often dresses, or pants, or shorts, or short skirts and crop tops, etc. The dance fashions change just as much as clothing fashions do.
    While I do not believe that nonsense about men doing the dance techincally better than women, I do believe they can do the movements just as well, though some can not really grasp the spirit of the dance as easily.
    No, it is not Arab Americans alone that feel that homophobic thing; it is Arabs everywhere. I would venture to say that non-Arab Moslems as well, react the same way. I know it is true becuase I have spoken with probably hundreds of Arabs from various countries in the last 33 years about this issue. Islam has even deeper gender divisions than does Christianity. Summerdance is an Arab and has verified the same. Donya lives in Egypt and has had the same experience. Homophobia is a problem in the Middle East, believe me, and that attitude extends to dance, where even women are looked down on for such behaviors.
    Regards,
    A'isha
    Last edited by Aisha Azar; 05-27-2007 at 02:11 PM.

  3. #63
    Member Outi's Avatar
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    If I'm correct in Egypt being a gay is illegal. There is a gay culture, but it's really underground. Police often closes places where they spend time, like cafes or nightclubs.

    Men, who dance, are viewed as gays. Folkloric dancers are an exception. This can be one reason that many Egyptian male teachers don't perform other than folkloric dances. For example I never seen Yousry Sarif perform anything else, even though he teaches everything.

  4. #64
    Member Recnadocir's Avatar
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    When we (men) belly dance, we finally get to...
    Make it light
    Make it bright
    Make it...oh, what's that word I'm looking for...?

  5. #65
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    Hi charity,
    what you're hearing from A'isha is 100% true. Homophobia is huge in the Middle East. It is not at all accepted, Particularly where it comes to gay guys. Arab men are taught from birth to be masculine. Anything at all that is considered a female job.attribute, look or emotion is both vilified and advised against in a males. Some arab countries actually submit their male relatives (who are susbected of homosexuality) to mental treatment.
    Donia, you are right, nightclubs, parties where homosexuals are thought to be gathered are often raided by the police in Egypt.
    Charity sterotypes are based in truth. This one is 100% true!

    Best Wishes!

  6. #66
    V.I.P. Dev's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by summerdance View Post
    Hi charity,
    what you're hearing from A'isha is 100% true. Homophobia is huge in the Middle East. It is not at all accepted, Particularly where it comes to gay guys. Arab men are taught from birth to be masculine. Anything at all that is considered a female job.attribute, look or emotion is both vilified and advised against in a males. Some arab countries actually submit their male relatives (who are susbected of homosexuality) to mental treatment.
    Donia, you are right, nightclubs, parties where homosexuals are thought to be gathered are often raided by the police in Egypt.
    Charity sterotypes are based in truth. This one is 100% true!

    Best Wishes!
    Dear Summerdance...
    Homophobia exists everywhere, Gay men/women are killed or abused everywhere in this world ,I believe there are Christian groups in Western countries where they think homosexuality is a sin or mental problem. In the middle East the situation is more volatile as the middle eastern men somehow have to prove that they are masculine, Its the way their culture works. But I would say Gay men and gay intimacy exists and in big groups in some Arab countries. I heared its much easier to get a man for sex than a women there.
    If you check Amnesty International reports you will see almost everywhere in this world minority groups suffer a lot. The following pictures are of two Iranian boys 18 and 19yrs who were hanged last year because they were caught having a sexual affair. I dread to think what a gay mans life would be like in the Middle east.
    http://www.farisqc.observationdeck.o...es/hanging.jpg
    http://myrtus.typepad.com/photos/unc...gayhanging.jpg
    Last edited by Dev; 05-28-2007 at 01:14 AM. Reason: I have deleted the pictures .Sometimes reality/truth hurts.

  7. #67
    Member Recnadocir's Avatar
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    Apparently the Iranian government claims that the two young men being executed in the photo were guilty of sexually assaulting a 13 year old at knifepoint. Since I am sure that the just and noble government of Iran would never lie and fabricate crimes or evidence, and since we know that gays are completely depraved individuals and cannot control their sexual urges, we can assume that these young men are being legally executed.

  8. #68
    V.I.P. Dev's Avatar
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    Ricco the two guys in the photos were executed for the "knife point " reason and absolutely legal. Actually they had 3 option to choose from,
    1.Throw them from the tallest building in the town.
    2.Stone to death
    3.Hang them in a public place.

  9. #69
    Member Recnadocir's Avatar
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    But Dipali, the question is not whether under Iranian law, rape of a minor at knifepoint is a capital crime, or whether this is the stated reason for their death sentence. The real question is, would the Iranian government fabricate criminal accusations and evidence, and if so, why?

  10. #70
    V.I.P. Dev's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Recnadocir View Post
    But Dipali, the question is not whether under Iranian law, rape of a minor at knifepoint is a capital crime, or whether this is the stated reason for their death sentence. The real question is, would the Iranian government fabricate criminal accusations and evidence, and if so, why?
    Why not , quite a few Goverments have lied or moved the truth a bit Remember the weapons of mass distruction or throwing babies in the ocean (that was from Australia), In general we all know what maybe happening in Iran, Recently they killed another 14 year old girl for having a sexual relationship with her father, Although later it was found the girl was only 14. The father got a few lashes and the daughter got hanged in the street. To justify killing you can come up with any idea if you want to. recently some british marine personnel were captured and if you witnessed the statements and video footage from iran it doesent leave much more to realize the type of institutions / government your dealing with. i think we should all cheer our diplomats for trying to deal with these type of governments.

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