History of Belly Dance

Kharmine

New member
Tarik, I think you're right that there is at least some residual racism inherent in an attitude that ignores culture and history and prefers to perpetuate stereotypes.

And a lot of it is poor education (how many schools teach about world history and culture in a holistic way, especially before the college level?), as well as plain ol' laziness. I find many people in the U.S. alone don't seem to remember what happened in the last administration and can't come up with simple, well-known historical facts.

That's why we need to respond pretty briskly when we seem something like bad journalism. I've been a newspaper copy editor; there's no excuse for allowing sloppy reporting.

The news media does pay attention to public clamour, however, so it would help if when we see something crappy and false about belly dancing sneaking into print, offline or on, we could alert topic forums and friends and bombard those publications with letters or email.



RB, you have my opinion to reprint whatever I've said. I've got magazine articles out that I can't reuse elsewhere for awhile because of copyright but nothing I've said here falls under that.

However, I think those of us who are able to contribute would probably like to see what kind of context you put our comments in before it goes online -- just so there is no misunderstanding on what we said. That would give us a chance, too, to make corrections or necessary clarifications.
 

Aisha Azar

New member
Dance, etc.

This is a very interesting idea, Aisha! I am just not sure how do go around taking the discussion "out of the context" of merely book discussion, as it grew beyond it! It is up to the Authors of the posts to do so!

"My sources do need permission for reprint" is there anyone else I have to get permission from for your part of the discussion? I'm sorry I am bit slow tonight, it is quite late here, so I am not quite sure what you mean!

This is just one of those threads that really gives a great insight on the topic! And I really hate to see such threads to get lost in hundreds of other threads! I wish more ppl would read it! And your suggestion is a perfect way to achieve it!


Dear Reen,
Sorry, I meant my sources do NOT need permission for reprint. Most of the time Aramco lets people use their stuff. The other book is out of print.
I would offer to put it all into text form,for you, but the other two contributors might object. If either of them offers, they have my permission as long as I am allowed to give my permission on my contribution to their finished product.
Regards,
A'isha
 

Reen.Blom

New member
Dear Reen,
I would offer to put it all into text form,for you, but the other two contributors might object. If either of them offers, they have my permission as long as I am allowed to give my permission on my contribution to their finished product.
Regards,
A'isha

Ok now we have to wait for Tarik!Thank you Aisha, let us see what they say!

Kharmine, Thank you so much! I do not think I want to put it in ANY context...LOL On the front page I am going to include shortcuts to 3 articles to come: 1) origin of bellydance 2) origin of the name eg BD vs raks sharki vs oriental dance, etc 3)dance costumes (to show that costume choice is responsibility of the dancer and that there are many options, including bodystocking and gowns, etc for ppl who do not like to show much skin).

So the information should just go under Origin of Bellydance..... or you think History would sound better?

Well as long as it deals with misconseptions about the cave paintings, goddesses and other stuff like that...

I know several ppl that wanted to do belly dance but did not because of:
1) 'belly dance is a pagan worship ritual' and it clashed with their beliefs

2) "belly dance originated from sultan's concubines" and is not something a self-respecting woman would do

3) "as long as you do it only for your husband"????? (like stripping? you are only allowed to seduce your husband so keep your bellydancing away from ppls eyes!)

4) "bellydance implies horribly revealing costumes with-ehem-boobs hanging out, so i would not dare appear in from of ppl in something like that" or 'I am too fat to wear those revealing costumes and show my stomach'

So I would love to show ppl that Bd is and ART and I belive this discussion here would help greatly!!!


I do not think that many ppl know how bellydance actually formed and that it is about 150 yo! I had no clue that that 'goddess stuff' comes from the 70s!(Kharmine I really enjoyed your stories about college times).

I am really looking forward to see the "final product!"

Lots of love,
Reen.Blom
 

charity

New member
Dear Charity,
The only problem with the "I don't know" viewpoint is that it is not accurate. There is much that we do know that puts the dance into historical, sociological, cultural and other various perspectives. The origins ARE actually known and there is historical and social record of that.
Regards,
A'isha

well if they can put this in one location online where it is easy to find it would help me out a lot. though actually just today i found a great website that seems legit. it was something like belly dance museum and there was a part that included belly dance history so i will have to check it out. and then i can run it by the forum to verify the accuracy of the information. sometimes they seem legit but...
 

Aisha Azar

New member
Dance, etc.

well if they can put this in one location online where it is easy to find it would help me out a lot. though actually just today i found a great website that seems legit. it was something like belly dance museum and there was a part that included belly dance history so i will have to check it out. and then i can run it by the forum to verify the accuracy of the information. sometimes they seem legit but...


Dear Charity,
There are some litmus tests to sort of use to decide the legitimacy of what you hear, read and see. The first is to measure the information against other sources that are not belly dance, such as anthropology, sociology, history sources, as three good examples. Ask people in the field. For example if someone tells you that belly dance is an ancient dance, thousands of years old, do not take their word for it just because it sounds great. Go to a couple of paleoantrhopologists and see what they have to say on the subject of evidence of paleolithic dance in the Middle East.
The second is to see how many times information is stated and by whom and if there is only one original source for it. For example, I have come upon a dance that I have found only one person has ever reported on. When I ask natives of the area from which this dance allegedly comes, no one from there has ever heard of it and I have spoken with people from several generations. All people who mention this dance in their writing or in discussion, always lead back to that one source. I am wondering if the person misinterpreted what they saw. The main reason for my questioning is lack of corroborating evidence.
The third is to talk to natives and be prepared to get a hundred different answers to the same question, but to be open to perceiving a pattern that will eventually emerge as at least a partially definitive answer. Keep in mind that Arabs are not especially open to talking about what they really think and feel to people they do not know well. ( Can't speak for Turks... it may or may not be the same.)
I know it sounds daunting, but with experience, it gets easier to separate chaff from grain.
Regards,
A'isha
 

Aniseteph

New member
We are just seeing it from different angles. He probably has no idea what the belly dance scene here is like, and that it isn't about dancing in a skimpy outfit for paying blokes.

I agree it is really sad if anyone is put off learning just because of someone's made up rubbish.
 

Reen.Blom

New member
he he he nicknack... I think that happens to almost every thread in this forum.... I think it shows that this is predominantly female forum so the topic can 'evolve' at any moment....LOL

That's why I want to make an article of this discussion.... at least the title of ther thread is 'History of Bellydance'- could be worse... it could be "Stage makup" or 'Knee excersices'... here you never know what jewels you find in most unexpected places....
 

Aniseteph

New member
Eek a mutated thread. Maybe you guys would be more at home over in Debate;)

You call that a debate, have you SEEN the stuff that really goes in there??? :shok: ;) :lol:. I just saw Reen Blom's list and it reminded me.

Back to the topic, all I can contribute is an authentic 1880 French use of the term Danse du Ventre complete with a bit of description, posted elsewhere on the forum if you're interested.
 

Reen.Blom

New member
Yippy! Aisha, Tarik said yes! So if your offer to edit it still standing, it would be great!

Love,
Reen.Blom
 

Aisha Azar

New member
Edit, etc.

Yippy! Aisha, Tarik said yes! So if your offer to edit it still standing, it would be great!

Love,
Reen.Blom


Dear Reen,
I will be happy to do so and then post it to all concerned parties for their approval. Give me a few days.
Regards,
A'isha
 

charity

New member
My dad has an Iraqi friend who said that about me dancing. Just goes to show our different cultural backgrounds and the different contexts we see dancing in.

And this is sad, as if it is something shameful....

i dont understand your statement...what is sad and what is shameful

so it was said she should only be dancing for her husband, why is this type of modesty shameful...
 

Aisha Azar

New member
Email addresses

Attencione!!!
( How did you like that catchy international signal??)
Will Reen, Tarik and Kharmine please send me their email addresses so that I can get an okay from each on the document for the IBDD website with a personal email instead of a public post. My email address is aishaazar@raqsazar.com.
Since I have to go into Word to write the document, I am not sure how to post it to the Private Messages on this forum. I can do the emotional and grammatical parts of writing when called upon to do so... the technical part often kicks my untidy buttocks into the field of "techno-moron".
Thank you
Regards,
A'isha
 

Kharmine

New member
Attencione!!!
( How did you like that catchy international signal??)
Will Reen, Tarik and Kharmine please send me their email addresses so that I can get an okay from each on the document for the IBDD website with a personal email instead of a public post. My email address is aishaazar@raqsazar.com.
Since I have to go into Word to write the document, I am not sure how to post it to the Private Messages on this forum. I can do the emotional and grammatical parts of writing when called upon to do so... the technical part often kicks my untidy buttocks into the field of "techno-moron".
Thank you
Regards,
A'isha

I'll send my email via Private message -- and I recommend you go back and take your email off this posting because there are spammers with software programs that do nothing but "harvest" email addresses off the Internet -- it's one reason I am having to change one of my emails, because it appeared on another forum years ago.
 

Aisha Azar

New member
Deletion

I'll send my email via Private message -- and I recommend you go back and take your email off this posting because there are spammers with software programs that do nothing but "harvest" email addresses off the Internet -- it's one reason I am having to change one of my emails, because it appeared on another forum years ago.


Thanks, I'll do that. Can you please remove it from our post?
 
Top