Dina and Saad il Sughir dancing

Aisha Azar

New member
Dance etc.

A westerner on the other hand, who is use to seeing people being serious and formal on stage, might take it the wrong way, as Zorba and Shanzel did.


:lol:This you say to a woman who spent part of her college career performing in French bedroom farces? :lol:


Of course, the way any given person views this kind of presentation is flavored by upbringing, personal taste, and the bent of their personal sense of humor. I didn't take it wrong, I just regard some of the antics on this video as tasteless rather than goofy. I think Shakespeare's comedies are hysterical. My brother would rather spend a week digging ditches than fifteen minutes at a performance of the Merry Wives of Windsor. He doesn't take it wrong- he simply is not amused.

Now excuse me while I retire to my parlor and cover all the table limbs with swaths of fabric.


Dear Shanazel,
I remember costuming both Tartuffe and "A Flea in Her Ear. LOVED doing Flea, especially decking out the doctor in a period correct get up!!!! Did you act in either one??
Regards,
A'isha
 

Shanazel

Moderator
I was in Flea- got to play the lazy maid, which my mother claimed was type casting. The dresses (actually the cleavage) got more thorough reviews than the actors, as I recall. :D Where were you when you did the costuming?

(Look out, Reenie! I'm off topic again!)
 

Aisha Azar

New member
Dance etc.

Dear Group,
First what I saw in this clip is a male dancer doing a bit of shaabi to tet Beledi and a bit of a drum solo. He was not belly dancing. Nothing as complex as belly dance was taking place for either him or Dina. In other words, they were both street dancing.



Dear Shanazel,
I spent 7 years as costume designer and shop supervisor at Eastern Washington University's Theatre Department. During that time I costumed four big shows a year and usually several smaller ones at our university. I also had the Opera singers from Gonzaga U. for stuff, the music department from EWU and also R/TV communications dept sent their people to me. I costumed everything from Shakespeare to Childrens' Theatre road shows. I costumed at least two French farces during that time, possibly more. It was really fun, but eventually I burned out. I later spoke with one of the costumers on "The Lion King" and she said 7 years is a pretty good run for a costumer, so then I did not feel so bad.
Regards,
A'isha
 
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Tarik Sultan

New member
Dear Group,
First what I saw in this clip is a male dancer doing a bit of shaabi to tet Beledi and a bit of a drum solo. He was not belly dancing. Nothing as complex as belly dance was taking place for either him or Dina. In other words, they were both street dancing.
A'isha

True, but most people around the world do not diferentiate between the two forms the way we do. They see any Middle Eastern dance which involves hip movements as "Belly Dance", regardless of how incorrect that may be. They don't even know that such a thing as Baladi or Shabbi exists. Even many Egyptians are oblivious to these distinctions.
 

Aisha Azar

New member
Dance

True, but most people around the world do not diferentiate between the two forms the way we do. They see any Middle Eastern dance which involves hip movements as "Belly Dance", regardless of how incorrect that may be. They don't even know that such a thing as Baladi or Shabbi exists. Even many Egyptians are oblivious to these distinctions.


Dear Tarik,
Most Egyptians with whom I have talked make a very clear differentiation between professional belly dance and what is done on the dance floor. To them, only professional dancers are belly dancers and everyone else is not, though occasionally the girls will "belly dance". They do know that beledi and shaabi exist, expecially beledi. I have a video that shows Fifi considers her audiences to know the differences, when she asks them if they want Beledi or Saidi dance. ( I think you told me once you have this video, too.)
One of our jobs as professionals is to explain and define these differences for our audiences. I think that's one reason why it is important to narrate shows and tell the people what is going on. This adds to their knowledge and enjoyment of what is happening on stage.
Regards,
A'isha
 

Tarik Sultan

New member
Dear Tarik,
Most Egyptians with whom I have talked make a very clear differentiation between professional belly dance and what is done on the dance floor. To them, only professional dancers are belly dancers and everyone else is not, though occasionally the girls will "belly dance". They do know that beledi and shaabi exist, expecially beledi. I have a video that shows Fifi considers her audiences to know the differences, when she asks them if they want Beledi or Saidi dance. ( I think you told me once you have this video, too.)
One of our jobs as professionals is to explain and define these differences for our audiences. I think that's one reason why it is important to narrate shows and tell the people what is going on. This adds to their knowledge and enjoyment of what is happening on stage.
Regards,
A'isha

Well, I don't know how or why this issue was raised because no one has been discussing what to call it. I just shared it because I thought its a cool clip, not whether its sharki or baladi is really irrelevant in this context.

However, Yes, I do agree, but even in Egypt there are a surprising number of people who do not know this fact. I think its mostly because they either don't care, or the technicalities of dance is not foremost in their minds. Whatever the case though, I'm not talking about those of us in the know, I'm talking about the majority of the world. I also agree that we as the artists of this field need to educate, which is why I am a strong advocate for using the culturally and linguistically correct terms of Raks Sharki and Raks Baladi respectively rather than the term belly dance in the first place.
 

Aisha Azar

New member
Dance

Well, I don't know how or why this issue was raised because no one has been discussing what to call it. I just shared it because I thought its a cool clip, not whether its sharki or baladi is really irrelevant in this context.

However, Yes, I do agree, but even in Egypt there are a surprising number of people who do not know this fact. I think its mostly because they either don't care, or the technicalities of dance is not foremost in their minds. Whatever the case though, I'm not talking about those of us in the know, I'm talking about the majority of the world. I also agree that we as the artists of this field need to educate, which is why I am a strong advocate for using the culturally and linguistically correct terms of Raks Sharki and Raks Baladi respectively rather than the term belly dance in the first place.


Dear Tarik,
Because of the confusion that we both agree exists, it is always relevant to define what is being done when it pertains to Middle Eastern dance and its off-shoots. That is how we begin to stop the confusion. I agree that once we have peoples' attention, we tell them how to say "belly dance" in Arabic and Turkish. Before than, the Arabic and Turkish words have no meaning for the average English or Chinese, or Spanish or speaker of any other languages. "Belly dance" is fairly universally known as that dance. Do you use "belly dance" in any of your advertising? I know I do, so that the average person who is interested in learning Raqs Sharghi. Most prospective students would have no verbal clue at all if I used the Arabic. They know the dance as "belly dance".
Regards,
A'isha
 

Tarik Sultan

New member
Dear Tarik,
Because of the confusion that we both agree exists, it is always relevant to define what is being done when it pertains to Middle Eastern dance and its off-shoots. That is how we begin to stop the confusion. I agree that once we have peoples' attention, we tell them how to say "belly dance" in Arabic and Turkish. Before than, the Arabic and Turkish words have no meaning for the average English or Chinese, or Spanish or speaker of any other languages. "Belly dance" is fairly universally known as that dance. Do you use "belly dance" in any of your advertising? I know I do, so that the average person who is interested in learning Raqs Sharghi. Most prospective students would have no verbal clue at all if I used the Arabic. They know the dance as "belly dance".
Regards,
A'isha

I don't disagree with you, only that this issue, valid though it may be, is irrelevant to this thread tha's all.
 

Aisha Azar

New member
Dance etc.

I don't disagree with you, only that this issue, valid though it may be, is irrelevant to this thread tha's all.

Dear Tarik,
Just curious... do you use the words "belly dance" in any of your marketing?? I believe my post was very relevant to the subject, since many people here might have thought the clip was showing belly dance. BEst to make a mistake on the side of being too careful than not.
Regards,
A'isha
 

Tarik Sultan

New member
Dear Tarik,
Just curious... do you use the words "belly dance" in any of your marketing?? I believe my post was very relevant to the subject, since many people here might have thought the clip was showing belly dance. BEst to make a mistake on the side of being too careful than not.
Regards,
A'isha

Dear Aisha:

Sometimes there is such a thing as overdoing it. There are far more relavant issues to the clip besides this one, such as those raised by some of the other posts. The issue of how to advertise and educate is a very good and valid one, but one that I think deserves its own thread and really doesn't fit here. We really cant run after everyone and categorize every clip according to dance style lest someone misunderstand. Its Egyptian dance, its was fun. If you enjoy it, you comment on what you liked, if you didn't you state so and why. That is relevant to the clip. This other issue in this context is a digression.
 

Aisha Azar

New member
Dance

Dear Aisha:

Sometimes there is such a thing as overdoing it. There are far more relavant issues to the clip besides this one, such as those raised by some of the other posts. The issue of how to advertise and educate is a very good and valid one, but one that I think deserves its own thread and really doesn't fit here. We really cant run after everyone and categorize every clip according to dance style lest someone misunderstand. Its Egyptian dance, its was fun. If you enjoy it, you comment on what you liked, if you didn't you state so and why. That is relevant to the clip. This other issue in this context is a digression.

Dear Tarik,
You are not answering me on the question of whether or not you use the term "belly dance" in your marketing. It is relevant because you initially brought it up in post # 46. Education and definition is ALWAYS relevant. It is what forums are all about, along with sharing information and knowledge. What is this big deal with digression in this forum these days, anyway? I am all for digression as it certainly is a natural path for conversation to follow. And, yes we can, very often categorize. It is part of our job as teachers to give our students the most definitive education about the dance that is possible. While it is clear in this clip, for example, that street dance (shaabi) and beledi and Saidi and Raqs Sharghi all have elements in common, that they also each have their own special meaning and flavor. There is no harm at all in pointing out that they are not all the same dance. It is not going too far. It is helpful for some people.
Regards,
A'isha
 

Tarik Sultan

New member
Dear Tarik,
You are not answering me on the question of whether or not you use the term "belly dance" in your marketing. It is relevant because you initially brought it up in post # 46. Education and definition is ALWAYS relevant. It is what forums are all about, along with sharing information and knowledge. What is this big deal with digression in this forum these days, anyway? I am all for digression as it certainly is a natural path for conversation to follow. And, yes we can, very often categorize. It is part of our job as teachers to give our students the most definitive education about the dance that is possible. While it is clear in this clip, for example, that street dance (shaabi) and beledi and Saidi and Raqs Sharghi all have elements in common, that they also each have their own special meaning and flavor. There is no harm at all in pointing out that they are not all the same dance. It is not going too far. It is helpful for some people.
Regards,
A'isha
Create a new thread on the topic and I'd be glad to answer it.
 

Aisha Azar

New member
Dance

Create a new thread on the topic and I'd be glad to answer it.

Tarik,
It is you who wants a new thread, so you create it. I find the question entirely relevant since YOU opened the subject. If you don't want to respond to the question, then don't, but don't try to act as if a subject YOU opened is not relevant. Why is the subject relevant when you open it but not when I pursue it? Creating a new thread will only confuse things more since then people will have to try to FIND the new thread in order to pursue the current discussion.
A'isha
 

Tarik Sultan

New member
Tarik,
It is you who wants a new thread, so you create it. I find the question entirely relevant since YOU opened the subject. If you don't want to respond to the question, then don't, but don't try to act as if a subject YOU opened is not relevant. Why is the subject relevant when you open it but not when I pursue it? Creating a new thread will only confuse things more since then people will have to try to FIND the new thread in order to pursue the current discussion.
A'isha

Yes dear, but I opened that issue in another thread, not this one. Also, I don't see why I have to spend time answering the question when you already know the answer as I've always stated every time the issue arises for how many years now? But if you really do need an explanation, check out my clip #1 and #2 on youtube.
 

Zorba

"The Veiled Male"
Goddess Mother, are you two still at it?!? :lol: And I thought *I* was tenacious! I'm humbled! :dance: :clap:

In the meantime, Tarik, I started a thread, also in "male dancers", that I'd like your input on if you have any energy left after debating the indefatigable A'isha! :tongue:
 

Aisha Azar

New member
Dance

Yes dear, but I opened that issue in another thread, not this one. Also, I don't see why I have to spend time answering the question when you already know the answer as I've always stated every time the issue arises for how many years now? But if you really do need an explanation, check out my clip #1 and #2 on youtube.

Obviously you do not want to answer a very simple question, so forget it. I can go to your website and check for myself. You broached the subject of wanting to call things by their proper name in post # 46 in THIS thread. I asked you if you used the term "belly dance" in your marketing and you decided that I was off topic, although you considered it okay for yourself to bring it up.


Dear Zorba,
I didn't think I was doing anything more than asking an honest question. Goes to show what I know.
Regards,
A'isha
 
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Zorba

"The Veiled Male"
Dear Zorba,
I didn't think I was doing anything more than asking an honest question. Goes to show what I know.
Oh no. Zorba is usually an idiot and will stick his nose into any/everything whether or not it actually belongs there! However, once in a while he gets a clue as to when its best to stay out of the beehive! This is one of those times! Its WAAAAAY too hot in here for him! :lol::lol::D:pray::pray:
 

Aisha Azar

New member
Dance etc.

Oh no. Zorba is usually an idiot and will stick his nose into any/everything whether or not it actually belongs there! However, once in a while he gets a clue as to when its best to stay out of the beehive! This is one of those times! Its WAAAAAY too hot in here for him! :lol::lol::D:pray::pray:


Dear Mr. Z.
Something or other is the better part of valor... Too bad I am too old to remember what it is right now!!
Regards,
A'isha
 

Oba Bear

New member
To me it seems like two good friends goofing around together as they dance. I've given my friend a swat on her butt before myself. But I'm a girl so I guess it doesn't matter?
 
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