Grrrrrrrr!

[Nafiseh]

I know this is a heavily re-visited conversation, however after having taught a group for a nearly a year, and having thought that I had explained the difference between belly dance styles from different countries etc, and that what we see in a lot of pop music are moves related to belly dance, however belly dance is more than just moves...a pupil asked at the end of last night's lesson "Can you teach us some Shakira moves and that thing Beyonce does with her arms"...........

Apart from having no idea what Beyonce does with her arms, I am now at a complete loss as to how to reply to that without trying to put her off completely. Clearly in her mind the classes are a bit of fun but how do I instill in her a respect for the dance without shrieking "SHAKIRA IS NOT A BELLY DANCER" and driving her away completely?!

Please help before I implode! :shok:

 

[adiemus]

Do the 'Silent Scream' for two minutes. Then breathe out.

Now, after a year, if this chickie can't get the idea that this dance isn't Shakira dance or Beyonce arms, I think I'd start to be a bit snippy and shriek 'SHAKIRA IS NOT A BELLY DANCER' and watch her run!

That's probably a bit flippant, but I feel your pain!
Here's a thought - could you show two DVD's, one of Shakira and one of another REAL belly dancer, and ask her to work out what she likes about each one. If, in the end, she likes the Shakira dance, perhaps then it's time for her to draw her own conclusion that she doesn't really want to learn the dance but just wiggle her hips? You could discuss the movements and how they're put together in each clip and show how belly dance really has a different relationship to the music perhaps...
Good luck!!!

 

[Reen.Blom]

I think shakira does the maya type thing in there....lol

I just think your students just dont know what to call it? Most ppl that never seen a bellydancer would be quite amazed to she Shakir and Beonce move their hips like that... and since the gals do bellydance i belive their friends might ask if they can do "like Shakira"... Explain to them that Shakira is not a bellydancer but used some moves from belly dance now and then...

 

[Ecuabellydancer]

I agree with Reen´s recommendation, that is exactly how our teacher explained the subject to us, I think on the first or second class...

She also told us that one of her former dance mates (my teacher studied BD in Argentina) was Shakira´s instructor and that if we watched some old videos we could see the difference in technique from when she started, because apparently at the beginning she was just making up some moves.... :shok:

 

[Shanazel]

"Can you teach us some Shakira moves and that thing Beyonce does with her arms"...........

Asking, "Shakira (or Beyonce) who?" gets some interesting reactions.

 

[Maria_Aya]

Heyyyyyyyy Nasifeh !!! how are you? I'm the Maria Aya, we danced together last year at Planet Egypt !!!

I understand what you mean, and the frustration but we have to keep in mind, that the society info might be sometimes stronger than the ones we give to our students.
Also they dont all come to a class for a same reason.

Kisses
Maria Aya

 

[Makeda Maysa]

I think shakira does the maya type thing in there....lol

I just think your students just dont know what to call it? Most ppl that never seen a bellydancer would be quite amazed to she Shakir and Beonce move their hips like that... and since the gals do bellydance i belive their friends might ask if they can do "like Shakira"... Explain to them that Shakira is not a bellydancer but used some moves from belly dance now and then...

That's how I reply. I've had many people, when they find out I'm a bellydancer, ask me, "Oh! Like Shakira??" And I always reply, "No. Not like Shakira at all. She isn't a bellydancer and she's never billed herself as one. Every now and then she throws in a similar movement, that's about it." And then I move the conversation on to what bellydance actually is. Patient, gentle, but get 'em educated!

 

[gypsy8522]

Explain to them that Shakira is not a bellydancer but used some moves from belly dance now and then...

Yes, but how's she going to do that if Shakira likes to talk on every interview about how she belly danced as a child??? I heard her say once that she grew up dancing while listening to Fairuz?!! Lol not sure how these two go together, but anyway Nafiseh, I think what you should do is let your student discover for herself. If after a few classes she still continues to think that Shakira is THE icon of Middle Eastern dance, that is her problem. It means that she didn't learn anything and she's missing out on all the knowledge she can get from you and elsewhere about a beautiful dance.

 

[Nafiseh]

Thanks all for talking me down, I feel much calmer about it all now!

I think showing the students two videos comparing true oriental dance to Shakira will hopefully speak for itself, continue teaching my way, then if they don't want to keep coming to the class that is their decision. And hopefully I will resist shrieking :lol:

Maria, when will you return to London? We enjoyed watching you so much, a musician friend of mine who had never seen 'proper' belly dancing (and also thought Shakira was the height of oriental dance) and had come to support me absolutely *loved* you! He said he had never seen anyone be so one with the music.

 

[Kharmine]

I think a lot of the confusion about Shakira comes from Shakira herself!

She's said in some interviews that she takes dance classes -- but in others I've heard it said she claims it just comes "naturally." Maybe she's being misquoted or misunderstood, I dunno...

But, yay, Nafiseh, for coming up with the perfect solution!

 

[Reen.Blom]

Hey good luck there!

 

[Ravenhairedbellydancer]

I have read that Shakira was taught by her paternal grandmother ( the Lebanese side) but maybe she has taken classes i later years,, I agree in her videos she isnt bellydancing much of the time but i do think she sometimes does bellydance performances such as this... maybe i am mistaken but is this not bellydancing at least in some form?

 

[sedoniaraqs]

I have read that Shakira was taught by her paternal grandmother ( the Lebanese side) but maybe she has taken classes i later years,, I agree in her videos she isnt bellydancing much of the time but i do think she sometimes does bellydance performances such as this... maybe i am mistaken but is this not bellydancing at least in some form?

No I wouldn't say so. There are movements used in belly dance but the whole package just isn't. At the most, I'd say she's mostly just showing off by means of some belly dance movements. The shamadan clip was especially puzzling to me -- so culturally out of context. The shamadan dance is done to certain kind of music, not the kind being used, and the dance is structured in a different way.

If you want to read more, why don't you search and find the 50 page thread entitled something like "what style is Shakira?"

I may be the only dance teacher that hasn't had someone showing up wanting to dance like Shakira.

Sedonia

 

[Ravenhairedbellydancer]

Interesting..... excuse my ignorance but what is a shamadan dance and which video is that??

 

[Nafiseh]

Raven the Shamedan is the big candelabra Shakira wore on her head in the first dance, it's usually danced at egyptian weddings.

Sedonia you are very lucky, I would say about half of the students who contact me enquiring about dancing mention Shakira.

Having said that I remember seeing Shakira years ago and thinking 'wow those moves are amazing'. She wasn't the main reason I started dancing (that was a trip to Egypt) but she certainly piqued my interest in belly dance.

I guess the problem comes when teachers either don't or can't educate their pupils and put the dance in a cultural context etc. And when pupils don't listen after a year and still ask to learn 'Shakira' moves <sigh>

 

[adiemus]

I never knew that Shakira even *mentioned* she was bellydancing!

Does this show my age???

 

[Moon]

I guess Shakira doesn't mention it. It's the general public that draws the conclusion because she's wearing a hipscarf and moving her hips.

I heard from one of my fellow students Shakira recently took some lessons in Egyptian style. I don't know how old these videos are, but it pretty much still looks like technique only, too big movements which somehow resemble movements also used in bellydance. However it looks like she's showing the movements in a row, not really like dancing.

 

[sedoniaraqs]

I never knew that Shakira even *mentioned* she was bellydancing!

Does this show my age???

I thought she ended one of her videos once by proclaiming she was the "best belly dancer in the world" or something like that. Or am I thinking of someone else?

Sedonia

 

[sedoniaraqs]

Interesting..... excuse my ignorance but what is a shamadan dance and which video is that??

Yes, when she rises up with the candelabra on her head. The shamadan dance is a wedding tradition (recent tradition, but tradition nonetheless), and generally the dancer leads the wedding party in a procession called a zeffa. The music has a particular marching rhythm (also called a zeffa). She generally plays finger cymbals and does simple dance moves. Once the wedding party gets to the reception area, the dancer may go on and do a more oriental style dance that involves floorwork, then may set the shamadan down and proceed with the rest of the dance set.

Again, IMO, Shakira just takes the flashiest bits of oriental dance, pulls them out of context, and uses them to show off on stage. She doesn't have enough of the dance components (moves, music, attitude, etc) to really say its belly dance.

I can see how people see the moves and say "wow I want to move that way" and end up in a belly dance class, where they will indeed learn to do those moves, but if they stick with it they'll learn that whole dance is something else entirely.

The best way to understand why Shakira isn't a belly dancer is to watch some good belly dancers.

For example, this most excellent clip by Randa Kamal dancing to the Oum Kalthoum song Baeed Anak:



Also watch Fifi Abdo, Dina, Sohair Zaki, Mona el Saiid, Samia Gamal, Dandash, etc. There are clips of all of them on youtube. Here is my playlist of good Egyptian dances:

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

I also have some clips of Oum Kalthoum singing in this video blog.

Sedonia

 

[Ravenhairedbellydancer]

I thought she ended one of her videos once by proclaiming she was the "best belly dancer in the world" or something like that. Or am I thinking of someone else?

Sedonia

:lol:, i'd highly doubt Shakira said that,, or Id hope she didnt , ( I still respect her as an entertainer and id have a hard time after that lol), anyway, i agree with you and i do see that she uses incorporation of belly dance movements rather than actual bellydance but it was those very movements that helped inspire me towards bellydance..