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  1. #31
    Junior Member SaraKat's Avatar
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    What about "don't show the palm of your hand to the audience"?
    I've heard from different sources that this is either a huge insult to Arab audiences or, in fact, not a big deal at all...

    Also, if ATS dancers are advertising themselves as "authentic"... well, "authentic" what? There is such a thing as "authentic" ATS, in that it's authentic with respect to the FatChanceBellyDance format, but if someone is claiming that it is an authentic folk dance they are either severely misinformed or intentionally misinforming others.

    Which should be another rule-- educate thyself so you can correctly educate others.

  2. #32
    V.I.P. Reen.Blom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by teela View Post
    ... the other has to do with the turkish drop shimmy. You can do it one way not the other or you are advertising your wares.
    WHat is turkish dro shimmy and which way is correct?

  3. #33
    Senior Member Eshta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A'isha Azar View Post
    Dear Janaki,
    I am probably going to get it big time here for daring to argue with anything that Raqia Hassan says, BUT, many Egyptian dancers own their bands and I have seen many times where the band does what the dancer says and not the other way around. A perfect example of this is every time you see the dancer signal the band as to what they want to have happen. You can see video of Nagwa where she signals her band to speed up the pace. I have seen both Fifi and Mouna signal the band to wind up a section of the music, etc. There is a video called Soheir Zaki in Germany where you can see that the drummer follows what Suheir wants, not her following him. These are the examples I can think of this early in the morning. I think in actual performance, it is a collaboration between the musicians and the dancer, not one always following the other, but for the most part working together as they both know what the other will bascially do for the show.
    Regards,
    A'isha
    Glad you said that, I understood that in perfect circumstances, the dancer and the musician kind of form something greater than the sum of its parts. Hard to explain, but a great improvised drum solo involved the drummer being perfectly aware of what the dancer was likely to move into, and the dancer perfectly aware of what the drummer was likely to follow with, and so neither was "following" the other, more they were both following something greater... I'm tired and rambling, but does that make any semblence of sense to anyone?

    Perhaps Randa means more in the sense that the dancer isn't the most important thing, that the music dictates the dance...?

  4. #34
    V.I.P. janaki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eshta View Post
    Glad you said that, I understood that in perfect circumstances, the dancer and the musician kind of form something greater than the sum of its parts. Hard to explain, but a great improvised drum solo involved the drummer being perfectly aware of what the dancer was likely to move into, and the dancer perfectly aware of what the drummer was likely to follow with, and so neither was "following" the other, more they were both following something greater... I'm tired and rambling, but does that make any semblence of sense to anyone?

    Perhaps Randa means more in the sense that the dancer isn't the most important thing, that the music dictates the dance...?
    Most dancers don't have the luxury to dance with live bands. Majority of the dancers dance to pre recorded music. In this case you gotta listen to music first. Yes, when you are working with live band you have work together in harmony. I agree with you and A'isha here. I danced to live music in other dance forms. The dancer usually has no choice but to folllow the music. Majority of the times music leads not DICTATE the dancer where she should go.

    FYI, it was not Randa who said it. No dancer says dancer isn't the most important thing!!! Listening to music and dancing is a different concept from music dictating the dance!!!

  5. #35
    Member LeylaLanty's Avatar
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    Dear A'isha and all others,
    I've discussed this personally at length with Raqia and actually you two agree. This is what Raqia means by saying that the dance follows the music.

    Yes, the dancers in Egypt (and all over the Middle East) tell the band what they want them to do as far as the song they play, how fast/slow/loud/soft they play it. THEN the music they play, as she has requested them to play it, goes into her ears and out to the audience through her body. At that point the dancer is following the music, letting the music determine what she will dance. She is not letting the band lead her because she has told the band how she wants the music to be played.

    Quote Originally Posted by A'isha Azar View Post
    Dear Janaki,
    I am probably going to get it big time here for daring to argue with anything that Raqia Hassan says, BUT, many Egyptian dancers own their bands and I have seen many times where the band does what the dancer says and not the other way around. A perfect example of this is every time you see the dancer signal the band as to what they want to have happen. You can see video of Nagwa where she signals her band to speed up the pace. I have seen both Fifi and Mouna signal the band to wind up a section of the music, etc. There is a video called Soheir Zaki in Germany where you can see that the drummer follows what Suheir wants, not her following him. These are the examples I can think of this early in the morning. I think in actual performance, it is a collaboration between the musicians and the dancer, not one always following the other, but for the most part working together as they both know what the other will bascially do for the show.
    Regards,
    A'isha

  6. #36
    V.I.P. Kashmir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amulya View Post
    Hmm I had a teacher who used to do hand circles when dancing. I'd like to know why she shouldn't have done it.
    Dr Mo says it is flamenco not orientale. He does "allow" wrist undulations where the wrist, hand and fingers may appear to circle but they don't.

    Yep, "Dr Mo" is Dr Mo Geddawi - inaugural member of the Reda Group who left Egypt in 1964. (So there are definite Reda influences in his style - but it has developed quite a bit independently). He is currently based in Berlin.
    Last edited by Kashmir; 11-14-2007 at 02:58 AM. Reason: who is Dr Mo

  7. #37
    V.I.P. Kashmir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ranya View Post
    Kashmir, did Dr Mo explain why you can't move yur hands while doing hip shimmies? Thnx
    He said it detracted from the shimmy. If you shimmy, you shimmy and that is what people should watch.

    I know lots of good dancers move their hands while shimmying - and I think if it is done well and not over busy it can look fine (but the thread was what were the rules - not what rules do you follow )

  8. #38
    V.I.P. janaki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeylaLanty View Post
    Dear A'isha and all others,
    I've discussed this personally at length with Raqia and actually you two agree. This is what Raqia means by saying that the dance follows the music.

    Yes, the dancers in Egypt (and all over the Middle East) tell the band what they want them to do as far as the song they play, how fast/slow/loud/soft they play it. THEN the music they play, as she has requested them to play it, goes into her ears and out to the audience through her body. At that point the dancer is following the music, letting the music determine what she will dance. She is not letting the band lead her because she has told the band how she wants the music to be played.
    Thank you for making it lot clearer than my post. This is exactly what she meant.

  9. #39
    Senior Member Ranya's Avatar
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    Shanazel, lol...guess it's the language barrier...I meant idol in this case as a kind of role model, something you look up to and not necessarily looking like that biblical golden calf - so YEEEES, it is a good thing . Don't worry, Moses would certainly not have hated you!

  10. #40
    Moderator Shanazel's Avatar
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    No, just my out of control imagination. It was a complement and I thank you.

    Other rules:

    1. Always wear shoes
    2. Never wear shoes.
    3. Never display tattoos.
    4. Tattoos are always appropriate
    5. Ankle bracelets are tacky
    6. Ankle bracelets are always in good taste

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