The "Rules" of belly dance

Ligeia

New member
I have also heard things like "you should never bend your knees while doing this and this move" etc. What bothers me in that is that what is not appropriate in one dance style can well be done on others...

So IMO I think that teatchers should tell what kind of style they teach and when they say "do not do this" they should add "in this style". For example when I do hip circle in modern egyptian style I do not bend my knees (as I have been told), but when I do hip circle in turkish style I do bend knees. Both ways are correct when done in the "right" context.

Saying only "do not do this" creates an illusion that there is only one "right" dance style and others are wrong. I definetly do not think that teachers do this intentionally, but it is a side-effect...
 

janaki

New member
So IMO I think that teatchers should tell what kind of style they teach and when they say "do not do this" they should add "in this style". For example when I do hip circle in modern egyptian style I do not bend my knees (as I have been told), but when I do hip circle in turkish style I do bend knees. Both ways are correct when done in the "right" context.

Saying only "do not do this" creates an illusion that there is only one "right" dance style and others are wrong. I definetly do not think that teachers do this intentionally, but it is a side-effect...

You are absolutely right. Great suggestion Legeia!!!!

I don't understand the concept don't move your arms when you do hip shimmy. I use my arms when I hip shimmy. I was taught to use them to frame my body form different angles.

Another biggest rule of any dancing is LISTEN to the MUSIC first before you dance. Raqia once told me " Listen to the music first and then you dance. Don't dance together with the music. Dance always follows the music, music doen't not follow the dance".
 

Aisha Azar

New member
Dance

You are absolutely right. Great suggestion Legeia!!!!

I don't understand the concept don't move your arms when you do hip shimmy. I use my arms when I hip shimmy. I was taught to use them to frame my body form different angles.

Another biggest rule of any dancing is LISTEN to the MUSIC first before you dance. Raqia once told me " Listen to the music first and then you dance. Don't dance together with the music. Dance always follows the music, music doen't not follow the dance".

Dear Janaki,
I am probably going to get it big time here for daring to argue with anything that Raqia Hassan says, BUT, many Egyptian dancers own their bands and I have seen many times where the band does what the dancer says and not the other way around. A perfect example of this is every time you see the dancer signal the band as to what they want to have happen. You can see video of Nagwa where she signals her band to speed up the pace. I have seen both Fifi and Mouna signal the band to wind up a section of the music, etc. There is a video called Soheir Zaki in Germany where you can see that the drummer follows what Suheir wants, not her following him. These are the examples I can think of this early in the morning. I think in actual performance, it is a collaboration between the musicians and the dancer, not one always following the other, but for the most part working together as they both know what the other will bascially do for the show.
Regards,
A'isha
 

Shanazel

Moderator
I hope I'm not once again proving myself to be hopelessly out of it, but: who is Dr. Mo? I do hand circles and have been known to move my arms during a shimmy, by the way. What is the good doctor's rational behind not doing either?
 

Ranya

New member
To my joke-idol Shanazel: I guess, but I might be wrong, that it is Mo Gedawi (or Geddawi?).
 

Shanazel

Moderator
Oh dear, I do feel so untutored at times and my memory for names is not that great anyway. Looks like it is time to do a Google search. Thank you, Ranya, for the information. Is being a joke idol a good thing? I get a vision of Moses descending from the mountain and seeing this idol who is so ridiculous he goes into a fit of laughter and drops the tablets...
 

Thara

New member
Hi!
My first techer had a "rule" abot bellyroll - for female dancers bellyroll go up and opposite is only for male dancers. But there was a lot strange rules :lol:
 

sedoniaraqs

New member
Hmm I had a teacher who used to do hand circles when dancing. I'd like to know why she shouldn't have done it.

Many of the Egyptian dancers do hand circles. Most certainly Sohair Zaki and Nagua Fouad and Samia Gamal. Fifi does them also.

When Dr. Mo says there are no hand circles in Eygptian dance, he probably means that either 1) *he* doesn't like hand circles, or 2) he saw terrible frantic butter-churning hands or flamenco flores on a belly dancer and didn't like that.

Sedonia
 

SaraKat

New member
What about "don't show the palm of your hand to the audience"?
I've heard from different sources that this is either a huge insult to Arab audiences or, in fact, not a big deal at all...

Also, if ATS dancers are advertising themselves as "authentic"... well, "authentic" what? There is such a thing as "authentic" ATS, in that it's authentic with respect to the FatChanceBellyDance format, but if someone is claiming that it is an authentic folk dance they are either severely misinformed or intentionally misinforming others.

Which should be another rule-- educate thyself so you can correctly educate others.
 

Eshta

New member
Dear Janaki,
I am probably going to get it big time here for daring to argue with anything that Raqia Hassan says, BUT, many Egyptian dancers own their bands and I have seen many times where the band does what the dancer says and not the other way around. A perfect example of this is every time you see the dancer signal the band as to what they want to have happen. You can see video of Nagwa where she signals her band to speed up the pace. I have seen both Fifi and Mouna signal the band to wind up a section of the music, etc. There is a video called Soheir Zaki in Germany where you can see that the drummer follows what Suheir wants, not her following him. These are the examples I can think of this early in the morning. I think in actual performance, it is a collaboration between the musicians and the dancer, not one always following the other, but for the most part working together as they both know what the other will bascially do for the show.
Regards,
A'isha

Glad you said that, I understood that in perfect circumstances, the dancer and the musician kind of form something greater than the sum of its parts. Hard to explain, but a great improvised drum solo involved the drummer being perfectly aware of what the dancer was likely to move into, and the dancer perfectly aware of what the drummer was likely to follow with, and so neither was "following" the other, more they were both following something greater... I'm tired and rambling, but does that make any semblence of sense to anyone?

Perhaps Randa means more in the sense that the dancer isn't the most important thing, that the music dictates the dance...?
 

janaki

New member
Glad you said that, I understood that in perfect circumstances, the dancer and the musician kind of form something greater than the sum of its parts. Hard to explain, but a great improvised drum solo involved the drummer being perfectly aware of what the dancer was likely to move into, and the dancer perfectly aware of what the drummer was likely to follow with, and so neither was "following" the other, more they were both following something greater... I'm tired and rambling, but does that make any semblence of sense to anyone?

Perhaps Randa means more in the sense that the dancer isn't the most important thing, that the music dictates the dance...?

Most dancers don't have the luxury to dance with live bands. Majority of the dancers dance to pre recorded music. In this case you gotta listen to music first. Yes, when you are working with live band you have work together in harmony. I agree with you and A'isha here. I danced to live music in other dance forms. The dancer usually has no choice but to folllow the music. Majority of the times music leads not DICTATE the dancer where she should go.

FYI, it was not Randa who said it. No dancer says dancer isn't the most important thing!!! Listening to music and dancing is a different concept from music dictating the dance!!!
 

LeylaLanty

New member
Dear A'isha and all others,
I've discussed this personally at length with Raqia and actually you two agree. This is what Raqia means by saying that the dance follows the music.

Yes, the dancers in Egypt (and all over the Middle East) tell the band what they want them to do as far as the song they play, how fast/slow/loud/soft they play it. THEN the music they play, as she has requested them to play it, goes into her ears and out to the audience through her body. At that point the dancer is following the music, letting the music determine what she will dance. She is not letting the band lead her because she has told the band how she wants the music to be played. :)

Dear Janaki,
I am probably going to get it big time here for daring to argue with anything that Raqia Hassan says, BUT, many Egyptian dancers own their bands and I have seen many times where the band does what the dancer says and not the other way around. A perfect example of this is every time you see the dancer signal the band as to what they want to have happen. You can see video of Nagwa where she signals her band to speed up the pace. I have seen both Fifi and Mouna signal the band to wind up a section of the music, etc. There is a video called Soheir Zaki in Germany where you can see that the drummer follows what Suheir wants, not her following him. These are the examples I can think of this early in the morning. I think in actual performance, it is a collaboration between the musicians and the dancer, not one always following the other, but for the most part working together as they both know what the other will bascially do for the show.
Regards,
A'isha
 

Kashmir

New member
Hmm I had a teacher who used to do hand circles when dancing. I'd like to know why she shouldn't have done it.
Dr Mo says it is flamenco not orientale. He does "allow" wrist undulations where the wrist, hand and fingers may appear to circle but they don't.

Yep, "Dr Mo" is Dr Mo Geddawi - inaugural member of the Reda Group who left Egypt in 1964. (So there are definite Reda influences in his style - but it has developed quite a bit independently). He is currently based in Berlin.
 
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Kashmir

New member
Kashmir, did Dr Mo explain why you can't move yur hands while doing hip shimmies? Thnx
He said it detracted from the shimmy. If you shimmy, you shimmy and that is what people should watch.

I know lots of good dancers move their hands while shimmying - and I think if it is done well and not over busy it can look fine (but the thread was what were the rules - not what rules do you follow :) )
 

janaki

New member
Dear A'isha and all others,
I've discussed this personally at length with Raqia and actually you two agree. This is what Raqia means by saying that the dance follows the music.

Yes, the dancers in Egypt (and all over the Middle East) tell the band what they want them to do as far as the song they play, how fast/slow/loud/soft they play it. THEN the music they play, as she has requested them to play it, goes into her ears and out to the audience through her body. At that point the dancer is following the music, letting the music determine what she will dance. She is not letting the band lead her because she has told the band how she wants the music to be played. :)

Thank you for making it lot clearer than my post. This is exactly what she meant.
 

Ranya

New member
Shanazel, lol...guess it's the language barrier...I meant idol in this case as a kind of role model, something you look up to and not necessarily looking like that biblical golden calf - so YEEEES, it is a good thing :D . Don't worry, Moses would certainly not have hated you!
 

Shanazel

Moderator
No, just my out of control imagination. It was a complement and I thank you.

Other rules:

1. Always wear shoes
2. Never wear shoes.
3. Never display tattoos.
4. Tattoos are always appropriate
5. Ankle bracelets are tacky
6. Ankle bracelets are always in good taste
 
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