Amanda (was Aziyade)
Well-known member
Long meandering reply to the original post
Okay, Cathy are you sort of pussy-footing around the question:
Are dancers themselves engaging in Orientalism/Orientalistic behavior?
We had a discussion on Bhuz about dancers themselves perpetuating Orientalist stereotypes, which you might want to check out. I think the thread was PC and Bellydance or something like that.
Or, if not ---
It's funny you should mention cultural appropriation. I have been torn from side to side on the whole ISSUE of what is, what is not, and what should be bellydance, and I can't say I've really resolved it in my mind.
I asked my soc advisor about cultural appropriation and the often resulting imperialism that comes with it. The whole "I like that thing you ethnic peoples do -- now I'm going to do it. Only I'll do it BETTER."
That attitude is the problem in our culture (the US) and if I had saved the links I could show you many posts from dance students who have literally said: Americans are making the dance BETTER or more palatable (presumably to American audiences.)
There's an assumption some people have:
-- Bellydance is too subtle to be appreciated by American audiences. We have to "liven it up" with props or fancier moves.
(We assume that our beloved general public just can't UNDERSTAND or appreciate the subtle nuances of Egyptian bellydance, so we throw in a snake, some veils, lion-tamers, whatever -- just to keep things "interesting."
This assumption is bunk. Americans can TOTALLY appreciate all the subtleties of the dance. They just can't necessarily do it for 2 hours straight. I'll be honest -- if the show runs 3 hours long, as some competitions do, I have a hard time staying interested, even when it's phenomenal dancing!
Anyway, I've heard young (read: inexperienced) dancers say, "well the audience can't appreciate Egyptian style, so I'm going to make the dance BETTER by adding Thai nail extensions and dancing to techno." Whatever.
Cultural appropriation is natural, normal. It's why we get called a "melting pot." But it can occur in a way that makes it offensive.
Offensive cultural appropriation is taking something from a people and then trying to sell it back to them as "authentic" without caring if it really is. Offensive cultural appropriation is taking something from a people without concern for how that people used it, and using it how you want. Offensive cultural appropriation is getting mad at people who question your motives for appropriating, and then hiding behind the "back off: this is my art. Don't stifle my creativity" veil.
Okay, Cathy are you sort of pussy-footing around the question:
Are dancers themselves engaging in Orientalism/Orientalistic behavior?
We had a discussion on Bhuz about dancers themselves perpetuating Orientalist stereotypes, which you might want to check out. I think the thread was PC and Bellydance or something like that.
Or, if not ---
It's funny you should mention cultural appropriation. I have been torn from side to side on the whole ISSUE of what is, what is not, and what should be bellydance, and I can't say I've really resolved it in my mind.
I asked my soc advisor about cultural appropriation and the often resulting imperialism that comes with it. The whole "I like that thing you ethnic peoples do -- now I'm going to do it. Only I'll do it BETTER."
That attitude is the problem in our culture (the US) and if I had saved the links I could show you many posts from dance students who have literally said: Americans are making the dance BETTER or more palatable (presumably to American audiences.)
There's an assumption some people have:
-- Bellydance is too subtle to be appreciated by American audiences. We have to "liven it up" with props or fancier moves.
(We assume that our beloved general public just can't UNDERSTAND or appreciate the subtle nuances of Egyptian bellydance, so we throw in a snake, some veils, lion-tamers, whatever -- just to keep things "interesting."
This assumption is bunk. Americans can TOTALLY appreciate all the subtleties of the dance. They just can't necessarily do it for 2 hours straight. I'll be honest -- if the show runs 3 hours long, as some competitions do, I have a hard time staying interested, even when it's phenomenal dancing!
Anyway, I've heard young (read: inexperienced) dancers say, "well the audience can't appreciate Egyptian style, so I'm going to make the dance BETTER by adding Thai nail extensions and dancing to techno." Whatever.
Cultural appropriation is natural, normal. It's why we get called a "melting pot." But it can occur in a way that makes it offensive.
Offensive cultural appropriation is taking something from a people and then trying to sell it back to them as "authentic" without caring if it really is. Offensive cultural appropriation is taking something from a people without concern for how that people used it, and using it how you want. Offensive cultural appropriation is getting mad at people who question your motives for appropriating, and then hiding behind the "back off: this is my art. Don't stifle my creativity" veil.