A show? With all of us?

[Aisha Azar]

Festival, etc.

Dear Brea,
No one as yet has brought this up, so I might as well be the Bad Guy and do so.
Some of us make our living at teaching and performing dance. When we go to teach and perform, usually someone contacts us, wishing to sponsor us. ( Most of us do not offer our services without first being personally asked to do so.This would be a breach of dance etiquette in most dance circles.)
The sponsors pay our way to and from the event, put us up in a home or hotel, etc. and pay us an agreed on amount for our workshops and performances. The sponsor and featured instructor have a signed contract as far as what is expected of each person, and the event proceeds from that place onward. The sponsor makes money by charging over and above for the classes and show, after the instructor has named a price. Sometimes the price is negotiable.
Because this is the way we earn our living, some of us are hesitant to become involved. Once the pattern is broken and we start paying our way to places, offering to just trade out dance knowledge, etc. then we will earn no money at all for what we do. We also may not feel too good about other professionals who are doing it for free, so to speak. Perhaps some of the professionals have already been in contact with you privately instead of announcing that they are available on the forum, I don't know.
There now, I have said it and I expect some repercussions, but that, I think is the heart of the matter and why you might not be getting such a strong response. I think it is a good idea, but it might need some tweaking, with specific teachers asked to teach by whoever is sponsoring the event, and a more solid commitment from all parties concerned in the event. I hope you will take this in the spirit in which it is given. It is meant as an encouragement and not as a criticism.
Regards,
A'isha

 

[Shanazel]

You aren't a Bad Guy, A'isha, you are a Practical Guy. Even so, it would be a shame to hold it too strongly against any professional who was occasionally willing to join in something "just because." Even attorneys do pro bono work from time to time.

 

[Aisha Azar]

Dance, etc

Dear Shanazel,
In most of our experience, when there is something that we do "just because" usually someone else is making money because of our hard work.
My dance company usually does two free events a year. One is a community event in which all people, including the sponsors, donate their time and energy. The public attends for free. We also allow ourselves to work for free one other time during the year when we are approached by one cause or another that we think is good. These are our pro bono work.
Regards,
A'isha

 

[Shanazel]

Those are perfectly lovely pro bono "just because" events. Just because it benefits the public, just because it assists in a good cause, and just because you want to are all legitimate reasons to donate time, talent and knowledge. It's one thing to undercut another teacher by offering to do for free a job she has been offered for pay. It is another all together to voluntarily forego one's own fee for whatever "just because" seems appropriate.

(I expected some repercussions when I wrote that post.)

 

[TribalDancer]

I guess I didn't realize this was a "teachers will teach for free" event?

 

[Shanazel]

Is it?

 

[TribalDancer]

Is it?

A'isha's post seems to claim so. Maybe I missed that. The thread did grow fast.

 

[Brea]

Um...hello all. I don't know why it is claimed that this was supposed to be 'free'. I believe I mentioned earlier that teachers would be able to teach their workshops at the rates they wished, and that I would reimburse based on the amount of money the show made equally. This is the first time I have attempted a show of this particular type, which was why I asked for advice. If people either are unwilling or unable to attend, or think I am generally not to be trusted, I won't have the show. Believe me, I would not be making tons of money on this...probably spending a lot of my own though. I have done that for many events I have hosted just to be able to have them, and I am quite poor. However, I would like to inform everyone that I also make money dancing and teaching. I am not out to cheat anybody. I just thought it would be a fun idea. I always felt that forums should assist the people involved, help them brainstorm to think of new ways and ideas, to generally find new ways to make this a profitable career choice for everyone. Perhaps I am going about it the wrong way. I had the idea and hoped people would be interested. If they are not, then the festival will not happen.

 

[Aisha Azar]

Show, etc.

Um...hello all. I don't know why it is claimed that this was supposed to be 'free'. I believe I mentioned earlier that teachers would be able to teach their workshops at the rates they wished, and that I would reimburse based on the amount of money the show made equally. This is the first time I have attempted a show of this particular type, which was why I asked for advice. If people either are unwilling or unable to attend, or think I am generally not to be trusted, I won't have the show. Believe me, I would not be making tons of money on this...probably spending a lot of my own though. I have done that for many events I have hosted just to be able to have them, and I am quite poor. However, I would like to inform everyone that I also make money dancing and teaching. I am not out to cheat anybody. I just thought it would be a fun idea. I always felt that forums should assist the people involved, help them brainstorm to think of new ways and ideas, to generally find new ways to make this a profitable career choice for everyone. Perhaps I am going about it the wrong way. I had the idea and hoped people would be interested. If they are not, then the festival will not happen.

Dear Brea,
It is not that I am not interested, but usually when one has to pay one's own way, there is a huge hole in income for the instructor, which is why we are sponsored. It is just about the same as working for free. I did not mean free as in the instructor will not be paid, but free in the sense that if travel is not paid and one must pay one's own hotel etc, then income is eaten away. I don't think anyone here intimated that you are out to cheat anyone. Usually travel and lodging/food expenses are handled by the sponsor and not by the instructor. The sponsor then add her/his expenses onto the price that the instructor charges for the class and performance. Since you make money teaching and performing, I guess I thought you would understand about that. I apologize for any misunderstanding on my part and I do know that you are not out to cheat anyone. That never crossed my mind.

Dear Shanazel,
I think also that pro bono for lawyers is usually much more of an emergency situation than pro bono for belly dancers!!

 

[Brea]

A'isha-

I do understand what you are saying about sponsorship. I am quite aware of how this is normally done...but then it is also normally done by people who are not themselves dancers, but event planners and the like, and they usually have a lot more money to throw around than I do. The purpose of this thread was to suggest the general idea of people on the forum who might be interested in doing a festival, and since I have no money I can't pay everyone's plane tickets. I am hoping to find sponsors willing to provide lodging, but a lot of it will be unpaid work for me just in setting it up. I personally feel that we all should try new things in order to make this dance more worthwhile as a career, and this (as well as the Oriental dance exchange) was just a suggestion in that direction. As I said previously, if there is no interest, there will be no festival.

 

[Shanazel]

Brie, you have a perfectly lovely idea and hope you don't become discouraged. I have faith that you can work the bugs out, and wish I could join you for the occasion.

I think also that pro bono for lawyers is usually much more of an emergency situation than pro bono for belly dancers!!

No, not at all. It is true that people require legal assistance at times while they rarely require belly dancers, but the vast majority of legal situations are not emergencies. The clients often do not see it that way, of course. Some attorneys do pro bono work regularly through various legal organizations, some offer their services privately. Members of the professional association of legal assistants do a good deal of pro bono work as well. I suppose one could look at it as if we are undercutting other legal professionals by doing work for free, but no one views it that way. And lest you think that we can afford to do it because we are so well paid, I probably should mention I make more per hour teaching dance than I do as a CLA. Go figure.

 

[Aisha Azar]

Pro bono

Dear Shanazel,
In any case, I would say one's need for a belly dancer, as opposed to one's need for a lawyer is pretty much two different things!!
I think Brea's idea is a good one as well and I am anxious to see how it progresses. I am the Big Mouth who dared to throw the idea of why the professionals on the forum might not be responding, but I bet many of them were thinking along the same lines as me. I felt it needed to be said when she said that she only had one for sure person so far. I thought that might be one reason, in the case of the instructors/performers on the workshop circuit. I was actually trying to HELP, no matter how it might appear....
Regards,
A'isha

 

[Aisha Azar]

Sponsorship

A'isha-

I do understand what you are saying about sponsorship. I am quite aware of how this is normally done...but then it is also normally done by people who are not themselves dancers, but event planners and the like, and they usually have a lot more money to throw around than I do. The purpose of this thread was to suggest the general idea of people on the forum who might be interested in doing a festival, and since I have no money I can't pay everyone's plane tickets. I am hoping to find sponsors willing to provide lodging, but a lot of it will be unpaid work for me just in setting it up. I personally feel that we all should try new things in order to make this dance more worthwhile as a career, and this (as well as the Oriental dance exchange) was just a suggestion in that direction. As I said previously, if there is no interest, there will be no festival.

Dear Brea,
Actually such festivals ARE often put on by dancers. I have sponsored people many times and there are several festivals in the Northwest alone. Talia is planning one in Spokane in June, with, I think 5 different teachers from out of the area. And yes, since I have sponsored people for the last 30 years, I know it is expensive and there is a LOT of unpaid work that goes on that people know nothing about if they do not do any sponsoring.
I think there is a lot of interest. Perhaps you could do a smaller scale event for the first one and personally invite the instructors, so that people will at least have some idea of who they are paying to take classes from etc. One of the problems right now from a marketing point of view is that people have no idea what they are getting, and everything seems tenuous because of that, no matter how clear the picture in your own head might be! Here are some ideas, and I am sure other people have some, too.

Tentatively decide on who you might like to sponsor and announce it to the forum. Keep in mind that plane fare will influence your decision. Or,ask people to email you privately and tell you who they might like to study with at such an event in order to choose instructors. Either way would give you an idea of what kind of interest there really might be. Choose just 1 or 2 for a first event.

Take a survey and see how many people are willing to travel to attend the event based on whatever instructors you might choose to sponsor.

Decide on what incentive you can give forum members and inform the instructors of it in advance, such as, if a person is a forum member, will instructors be willing to give them a discount on the workshops? Are you willing to make the event open to non-forum members in order to make it more financially successful?

Decide what your budget is, based on the realities of room rentals, plane fares, putting people up, advertising, etc. and stick to it as closely as possible, and be sure to tack on your expenses into the price for the performance and workshops.

Decide whether or not the belly dance community in your area is supportive of you and your events, or if you need to count more on outside attendance.

I do not mean to be pushy, here. These are just some suggestions. I think it is a viable idea. It IS very scary to finance events. I know, having done it over and over again.

Regards,
A'isha

 

[Shanazel]

Dear A'isha,

Now there is a new angle for one of those troll messages:

Attention Belly Dancer! I have an emergency need for a belly dance teacher for my wife. It is imperative that she be able to perform for King Ozymandias in six weeks, and unfortunately she has no prior experience. I will pay for your travel to Outer Slobovnia, your lodging and meals, and for three lessons a day for six weeks. Name your price for lessons! Please reply by return e-mail. Serious inquiries only. Signed, the Sultan of Swat

Shanazel

 

[Brea]

Hahaha Shanazel! I think that guy already wrote me once...

To A'isha, and all who may be hovering, and such:

There are a few more besides Mya who have shown interest. I am just trying to figure out a way to do it that won't destroy my pocketbook or anyone else's, and hopefully be beneficial to all. I am working on it as we speak and I am hoping to have solid dates, news, etc, for this festival, as well as information on lodging and travel. I'm a professional bus driver, for god's sake, I'll rent the bus and go pick everyone up that lives somewhere connected to the United States via road if I have to.

Seriously, I am very sincere in my desire to put this on and make something of it if possible. I have hosted a number of events, all of which took more out of my pocket than I ever earned back...but everyone in attendance had a great time and loved it. I am hoping this event, though it is my most ambitious project to date, will go over the same way. I only deeply regret that it cannot be held in Hawai'i, because there's really nowhere like it.

 

[Brea]

OK! Date and place have been decided! Please see the website for information. Venue is on its way!

 

[Mya]

that's good news brea! i think a'isha's suggestions are useful as well. thanks a'isha!

 

[Aisha Azar]

Site

Dear Brea,
Good!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Regards,
A'isha

 

[janaki]

I'm a professional bus driver, for god's sake, I'll rent the bus and go pick everyone up that lives somewhere connected to the United States via road if I have to.

Seriously, I am very sincere in my desire to put this on and make something of it if possible.

Brea that is so sweet of you to think of hiring a bus and driving everyone!!!:clap: I am sure you are sincere in your desire too. The reason for mild reaction is, many professional teachers/performers usually have their schedules full for atleast 6 months to year. Hope it will all work out for you.

 

[Brea]

Hi janaki,

Yes, I understand that people are quite busy. I still have had quite a good response (mainly via PMs) so keep an eye on the website for more information! Again, anyone wishing to be involved in ANY way, please write to me, leave a comment here or on the site! I am very excited about this festival and hope it will go over really well.

Aloha all! I hope to hear from you.