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  1. #21
    Moderator Yshka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hadassah
    If I want to see an umi, a camel, a four-point lock, etc - and teach can't produce, well, I just might walk outta class.
    True! The teacher is supposed to know those things about the dance! That's why she is the teacher from student's point of view. If she is asked to show or explain and is not able to, one would start having doubts wether she is a good teacher.
    At 9 months I think no one would be qualified to teach really..

  2. #22
    V.I.P. Moon's Avatar
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    Elly-Beth, I hope we did not scare you away? We only want to help you, believe us.

  3. #23
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    Uuum, Ouch! As much as I love this forum, I can find it to be a little scary sometimes. There have been a couple of times when I read threads and I couldnīt help but think that a beginner here doesnīt stand a chance if she doesnīt have a pretty strong mind of her own and is secure.

    That being said, you were absolutely within reason to STRONGLY disagree about her starting to teach after 9 months. That was the main objective to many of the responses; to disagree and hopefully steer her in a better direction. Buuuuut, I just think many of the approaches could have been less intimidating and "attack" like and more constructive.

    I hope this helps one way or the other.
    T

  4. #24
    Moderator Yshka's Avatar
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    Dear Tenica,

    I see why the responses could sometimes come across are 'intimidating', but then again this is a serious topic. Our responses were mainly constructive as far as I've seen, and were not meant to attack her. It's just that this is a very important part of dancing, it's the fase in which a strong foundation of movements and dance knowledge should be made, and that is serious business. Behaviour like this could cause damage to the image of the dance in that particular area and the dance community in general. If more beginners were to start teaching one might think anyone could declare themselves teacher after a few months of dancing.. Starting to teach at such a level of experience could also have the result of ruining the foundation of dance being created in the beginner fase for potential dancers.

    On what you say about posts here seeming 'intimidating' to beginners sometimes, my take on this is that a beginner will certainly stand a chance here by being sincere and respectful to the dance. Even in cases like these I (and I think many others with me, but since I'm only able to say what I think of it myself I will) mainly try to give advice, in order to educate about and improve/protect the reputation of MED. If we come across as attacking or intimidating, it's just because we care for the dance sincerely.

    I hope most people here will see that we are not about attacking beginners or being intimidating, but merely there to help, even though we are a little BOB sometimes

    Yshka

  5. #25
    Member Hadassah's Avatar
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    Hi Tenica - Yshka is right - we didn't want to scare elly-beth off, and I certainly hope that hasn't happened. I just think, as do many others on this forum, that if we want our Dance to be taken seriously and as a profession we need to have standards.

    After all, if I had taken nine months of ballet, and then called myself a ballet instructor, who would take me seriously? I'm sure, as I have said, that Elly-beth is a great performer - I am envious of her fire prowess, as I haven't accomplished this yet, which was why I suggested her teaching fire technique.

  6. #26
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    Ladies, my purpose was not to put anyone in the position to feel that they had to explain themselves. You make VERY valid points and most of you gave very sound advice and arguments as to the correct way to proceed as a teacher and why!!! I just saw that there was emphasis put on some things or things brought up that were a little over the top. Not to mention the direct comments or things said to someone you donīt know very well. I feel that many people tend to get carried away in forums in general and donīt filter their repsonses and the strength of them as well as they would if they were face to face with the person. Sorry, but thatīs how I see it.

    I understand the need to protect and fight for a better and ethical "Belly Dance World." Iīm right up there with all of you. Especially during this amazing time when the world is sitting up and taking notice of our beautiful art and the wonderful women that are apart of it, now more than ever. While at the same time, there are the very seedy, shady, unscrumpulous women that are chipping away, in every way possible at the beauty, authenticity and quality of this precious dance.

    Buuuuut, when all is said and done; Belly Dancing is about liberation, self exploring and acceptance. Building confidence, excitement, happiness and all the joys and pains that come with being a part of a supportive and possitive community. Encourage wrong doing? NO, absolutely not. Suger coat what is obviously very questionable, unexceptable and just not right? NO, NO and NOOOOO!!!

    Iīve lived my life learning from very wise people that if and when you are in the position to give advice, your opinion or correct someone for whatever:
    1) Itīs not what you say, but how you say it! and
    2) Tough love is a very neccesary thing, but use it sparingly.

    I hope that I donīt sound too preachy. Iīm just very passionate about our BD world and the people in it, and want to see both well taken care of.

    Your Sister in Dance,
    Tenica

  7. #27
    V.I.P. Moon's Avatar
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    Dear Tenica, I agraa with you.
    I think no-one here tried to "attack" Elly-Beth, we only wanted to help her and protect the art of bellydance. Though it's clear Elly-Beth responded to the first replies she got, but not to the other ones. To be honest, I never se her on this forum. Maybe she still reads everything we write, or maybe we unpurposely did scare her away. That could mean she thinks we're mean or jealous or we feel threatened, and she doesn't want to listen to us any longer and has started teaching right now...
    ... That would be a pity...

  8. #28
    V.I.P. Lydia's Avatar
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    Default when it is ok to go out on your own

    Hi Tenica and ely beth,i don,t believe that anyone realy means to scare or has bad intentions on this forum..i was thinking that we all get on realy well...also i think that emails or things that you read and write not always come across how it ment to be and understoud wrong,i sometime,s have that when i read things....than when i go back and ask ,many times that person would say .i did not mean it that way.....if you feel bad Ely beth please read the replay that i send on this qeustion when you just posted it,......i am sure plenty others wil agree with me,because plenty people out there will just go and start to teach without even thinking if it would be the correct thing....please dont feel bad i still think you are sweet for asking this question, but i also hope that you take the advice from the dancers and teachers that are for a long time in this artform,and it is sometimes realy difficult because so many people are not taking it serieus and making a mokkery of it.....hope you keep on practising and become a great teacher one day ....huggies Lydia

  9. #29
    V.I.P. Aisha Azar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tenica View Post

    Buuuuut, when all is said and done; Belly Dancing is about liberation, self exploring and acceptance. Building confidence, excitement, happiness and all the joys and pains that come with being a part of a supportive and possitive community.

    Your Sister in Dance,
    Tenica
    Dear Tenica,
    I am sorry, but the above is not what "belly dance is all about". Liberation and all the rest is a possible side effect of studying the dance, but not the purpose or meaning of the dance. Belly dance is, to quote from my introductory literature, "an authentic ethnic dance in movement and spirit. The dance and dancer are the physical manifestation of and visual compliment to the exotic music they accompany. Like ballet, the dance has precise movement based on root concepts. The dancer enjoys a full range of personal expression within the dance".

    Any teacher should be able to explain to the student about the dance without making it about the dancer's needs, but about the dance itself. This dance is not meant as a form of therapy, but sometimes, if we are fortunate, the dance does help us to build strengths and character. I have met people for whom the dance has done all kinds of wonders, myself included.This, however, is a side effect and not meant to be the ultimate outcome of our dance endeavours.

    All of the people here have made more than valid points about not teaching (or for that matter, performing in a professional venue) before one is prepared to do so. As we can all see by some of the horrendous stuff going on out there in the name of "belly dance", people need to have some years and some experience in the dance to be competant to teach.

    Regards,
    A'isha

  10. #30
    Member Hadassah's Avatar
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    Thank you, A'isha. I guess Elly-beth was perhaps misled by her teacher in many ways, and is not totally to blame here. After all, after one lesson, her teacher had moved her up to "advanced", which would have done a lot for leading her to believe she was ready to teach.

    Personally, I think one class is too early to assess a student's ability. I had had over a year of Neena and Veena, Jillina and other DVD experience, knew some basic moves (unpolished though, especially for Egyptian style), and it still took me almost six months to move up to intermediate.

    The only reason my teacher (with 28 years exp) is allowing me to perform professionally now is because she knows she can trust me to
    1. Not undercut her
    2.Not take gigs without her permission
    3. Not do anything to compromise her reputation and teaching

    Also, I work HARD. I want this more than I've ever wanted anything in my life, and my teacher knows this. She can see my dedication, and loves to challenge me. So far, I've risen to the occasion. And I've honestly tried to honor her and this beautiful Dance by upholding the ethics, style and elegance which she has passed on to me.

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