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  1. #11
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    Yes, I want to make that clear as well. The problem I see is that most Westerners equate ANYTHING that MIGHT be construed as sexual/sensual as immediately 'dirty'. I think there is a definite line...but I also think that there is an inherent sexuality in the dance itself that cannot be denied.

    I have seen too many dancers try to also be strippers...I have also, unfortunately, seen very untalented strippers attempt to be professional bellydancers.
    Last edited by Brea; 05-18-2008 at 01:47 AM.

  2. #12
    Senior Member sedoniaraqs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yasmina View Post
    Maybe I need to change my teacher, but in his choreos he lets us touch our body all the time, we touch our hair all the time and he tells us to feel sexy all the time.
    It all depends on the nature of the touching and the intent. I have never seen any of the Egyptian dancers run their fingers through their hair ala Suhaila or Kaya. They do however, place their hand on their hair without moving it around, or informally place the hair behind the shoulder or move a stray lock out of the way (and I've seen western dancers do this too much and too contrived).

    Similarly, the Egyptian dancers will *place* their hand on the side of their hip, but don't run their hands up and down the body or massage them around. They will place their hand over their liver or heart in gesture to particular emotional song lyrics but this is generally to express emotions other than sexual ones, like heartbreak and angst.

    Your best bet is to watch the Egyptian dancers (assuming Egyptian style is what you are shooting for). What do they do with their faces and hands (and when), and does your use of movements and expressions fall within these parameters?

    Sedonia

  3. #13
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    Oooh. Your fellow student was very rude and spoke out of turn.

    I once took a workshop with Egyptian dancer Shafeek Ibrahim. He was less than impressed with the class's lack of emotion and shouted "Where is sexy woman? I want to see sexy woman!" Aida Nour, too, has said "Where is the sex?!" in a workshop.

  4. #14
    Member TribalDancer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gia al Qamar View Post
    I feel very strongly about this subject.
    First, let me say that the other student was 150% wrong to 'immitate' you and she should be ignored.
    Second...facial expressions need to be rehearsed the way that hand movements and choreography needs to be rehearsed. Natural expression is all well and good...but...when you're performing, you need to put your best face forward...pun intended.
    Third...
    I think there is a GIGANTIC, huge, massive thick line between dancing sensuously and dancing sexually.
    Listen to Gia! Boom, just what I wanted to say!

    I do not deny the sensuality of dance, but do not believe in the dance as innately sexual. And I strongly feel that doing everything in our power to stay on the sensual side of the line, and avoiding the sexual, is the best way to serve the dance. If you dance sexually, then your story is already over. That is to say, what else is there to express once you have gone there? That is all people will see and "get" from your dancing. But if your dance has a full range of emotion from joy to sadness, from anger to pleasure...then you will better convey the story of your dance without the distraction of SEX SEX SEX!

  5. #15
    V.I.P. Kashmir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KuteNurse View Post
    That was mean of the dancer to say that. Why is it such a big deal since it is just a practice??? It was not like it was a performance...you were just learning. Sorry people are like that, sometimes it is embarassing what others think and how insensitive they can be.
    Assuming the tutor could see she had the basics of the dance I beg to differ. If you practice a piece 50 times with wrong facial expressions, slack hands or whatever then it is very likely to turn up in your performance. Face, hands and arms need to be corrected well before the dance is fully polished and ready to go so they become automatic.

  6. #16
    Junior Member Moondancer's Avatar
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    there is a difference between sensual and sexual. belly dance is sensual, not sexual. it is performed by women for women; it is a dance that celebrates femininity. when you dance, it might help to think about seducing females, not males. and i mean in a non-sexual way, obviously. be like 'check out what our wonderful bodies can do, ladies' and not 'oooh wouldn't you like a piece of this?'


  7. #17
    Moderator Yshka's Avatar
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    Dear Yasmina and others,
    I somehow feel that this other student made a bigger issue out of something that started out as a casual comment. I agree with what Gia said exactly and I feel there is a big difference between dancing sensuously and sexually, BUT, what if we are talking about something else here.

    Yes you may feel sexy when you dance, you just don't have to show it in a sexual way. Kaya sure feels sexy and boy do we all know it! But do we feel what she's doing is sexy? No. What she's doing is overly sexual and not quite the sort of sexy we want to see in the dance. I do feel sexy when I dance, but that's the way it is. Feeling sexy and good about yourself is part of the dance, whether you're male or female IMO. It is as much part of the dance as it is part of everyday life. It's not 'what it's all about' but we cannot pretend it isn't there at all. Personally I feel a lot of westerners just have a twisted view of what is sexy and "SEXY", if you know what I mean...

    The teacher mght have told you to smile more because you were letting go of yourself in the music, which is fine seeming you thought this song was so beautiful, but the teacher was rather expecting you to smile (maybe as part of choreo or something I'm unaware of here). Does that make sense?.

    Only person who brought in the entire sensual/sexual discussion was the other girl, probably to make herself look good and make you feel bad. She was wrong to comment on it since it was not her right to give her opinion on it and she wasn't asked to do so, and she was wrong since I really really doubt YOU would make a porn face in class.

    Honestly, I've seen Yasmina dance and I was not the only one who thought she had a-ma-zing expression when dancing...

    Sorry, but porn-faces....? give me a break.
    Last edited by Yshka; 12-04-2007 at 11:21 PM.

  8. #18
    Premium Member Aniseteph's Avatar
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    I thought Kutenurse meant the fellow student was mean. I agree the teacher should be correcting as she sees fit, that is what she's being paid for.

    But the other student's comments were completely out of order. I agree with Yshka - sounds like her comments were what blew it all up. None of her business what anyone else in class was doing, and very rude to interfere with anyone else's learning. Terrible etiquette.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yshka View Post
    Feeling sexy and good about yourself is part of the dance, whether you're male or female IMO. It is as much part of the dance as it is part of everyday life. It's not 'what it's all about' but we cannot pretend it isn't there at all. Personally I feel a lot of westerners just have a twisted view of what is sexy and "SEXY", if you know what I mean...
    This ties in with what Suheir said about the Egyptian teachers she mentioned. I've been to workshops with them too, and when say they want to see sexy women I don't believe for a minute they are wanting to see porno faces and looking like something on heat, they want to see what Yshka is talking about - feeling good about yourself, feeling you are attractive, enjoying the dance and the music and sharing that feeling. Which is sexy, not SEXY. I know what you mean Yshka!

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aniseteph View Post
    This ties in with what Suheir said about the Egyptian teachers she mentioned. I've been to workshops with them too, and when say they want to see sexy women I don't believe for a minute they are wanting to see porno faces and looking like something on heat, they want to see what Yshka is talking about - feeling good about yourself, feeling you are attractive, enjoying the dance and the music and sharing that feeling. Which is sexy, not SEXY. I know what you mean Yshka!
    Yes, it's self-confidence and feminine pride that they want to see!

  10. #20
    Moderator Yshka's Avatar
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    I meant that too, maybe I was unclear. The fellow student was mean, but I was just saying it might have been that the teacher did not mean it in a way related to the whole sensual/sexual discussion. She was probably right to say anything as she saw fit, but maybe just out of having a certain expectation for the choreo, or a way of what she'd like to see in the students, not per sé related to whether or not anyone made pornfaces.
    Last edited by Yshka; 12-05-2007 at 12:04 AM.

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