Becoming a Professional Dancer (Age Related)

CurlyBellyGirl

New member
I was wondering if one can ever be too old to begin aspire to become a professional bellydancer? For example, if you start dancing when you are 28-32, is it still possible to become a professional dancer? I know that in some forms of dance, such as ballet, one can pretty much count out wanting to become a professional if they haven't started in their teens, or early 20's. I believe the same rule applies to gymnastics (even younger for gymnastics), figure skating, etc. However, it seems that with ballroom dance and BD one would have the opportunity to become a professional if they had the drive and amibition to do so even if they did not start dancing until their late 20's or early 30's.

What do you all think? I know that it takes years to become a great dancer and that individuals vary and learn at different speeds, but do you think it's possible for someone who did not start dancing until they were an adult to become a professional?
 
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nitewindz

New member
What do you all think? I know that it takes years to become a great dancer and that individuals vary and learn at different speeds, but do you think it's possible for someone who did not start dancing until they were an adult to become a professional?

Yes you CAN become a pro belly dancer even if you did not start until adulthood. BUT a LOT will depend upon your dance skills and ... (slipping into flame retardant bedlah) ... your body type.

Someone who's been doing other forms of dance or has a natural talent for dance will pick up on belly dance better than someone who's never ever danced at all before.

I was over 40 when the director of a nationally known troupe encouraged me to try out for a spot -- partly because I am taller than her, and she needed taller dancers in the background. My body type (height) helped.

For awhile I thought it was just a strange fluke based on my height, then a couple of years later another group offered me a spot. But I just can't go on tour, so I didn't.

I can't comment on ballroom or swing because I'm not deeply involved in either one (my husband isn't much of a dancer).

Women's gymnastics is -- IMHO -- almost ridiculous, in that only petite girls with pre-pubescent body types have any hope of succeeding, and even then as soon as they hit puberty they're pretty much washed up..
 

CurlyBellyGirl

New member
Nitewindz,

When you say "body type" what exactly do you mean? I will assume that you mean in good shape and height:weight porportonate since you slipped into your flame retardant bedlah!

BTW, I totally agree with the thing about gymnastics, which I had to stop when I was fairly young because I was already getting too tall even though I'm really not *that* tall as an adult (5'7 1/2) and was short until the end of high school. lol...
 

gypsy8522

New member
CurlyBellyGirl,

As long as you have the drive to do something, you can do it. Even in ballet, if you start as an adult there is still a chance you can learn something and become a good dancer. Of course you won't become as good as someone who started at age 5, this is normal not only in dance but in any other field, just like you can't study two weeks before a "hard" test and expect to get the same grade as someone who has been studying the entire year. The beautiful thing about this dance is that it isn't all about physical or technical ability, but there is a mental aspect to it as well.There is also an emotional and cultural aspect that must be learned if you want to become a "great dancer", this by itself takes years and years to learn especially if you are not a native and was not born into that culture. The people, music and meanings behind it, language, customs and other things [about the ethnic culture this dance comes from] that you should have adequate knowledge about. This in my opinion is just as important as learning how to dance. Taking lessons and learning movement alone isn't going to make you a great dancer. Therefore, it isn't the same as, and shouldn't be compared to gymnastics, figures skating, or even ballroom dancing.

If you are thinking about becoming a professional, the most important thing is that you practice this art with integrity and wisdom. And this applies to every other field, not only belly dancing. Today we see many intruders to the world of arts, music etc... people who try every means to become famous even though they don't have the required skills or talent. There are belly dancers who use the dance to become famous, fame being their end, not the dance itself. There are others who only care about making fast money, whether it is negatively affecting other people or the way dancing is perceived in the long run, it makes no difference to them. Bottom line, if you're thinking of becoming a professional dancer one day, make sure that you really ARE a professional and it is not just a label you attach next to your name.
 

Moon

New member
Nitewindz said:
Someone who's been doing other forms of dance or has a natural talent for dance will pick up on belly dance better than someone who's never ever danced at all before.
Hmm not always :think: I think having experience with another dance form can work against you in some cases.
I've only been bellydancing for almost 2.5 years now and ballroom & latin dancing for 1.5 years, but I already noticed I use a different technique for moving my hips than ballroom dancers do, because that's how I learned it at bellydance class. And I've heard bellydance teachers complain about "those annoying competitive ballroom dancers" in their class :lol:
A little off topic though, I'm sorry. I agree with the others, you can become a professional at an older age. I feel a lot of bellydance movements are more "natural" than for example ballet movements. The emotional connection is more important than being extremely flexible. This makes the dance more suitable to learn at an older age than, for example, ballet.
 

chryssanthi sahar

New member
The age 28-32 is not too old to become a professional belly dancer, if you are talented and work hard on your dancing. But the question is, when do you become a professional belly dancer? IMO, you are a pro, when you make a living only with your dancing (performing and teaching, or only performing, or only teaching). If the money you earn with the dancing is not enough for living, then IMO you are not a professional, you are a semi-professional (half-professional). In order to be able to live from the dancing though, you have to start slowly as a hobbyist first. If you are successful and get enough performances (and/or students) you can go on as a half-professional. And if the performances and students become so many, that you don't have any time to do any other job and you also don't need to, because you earn enough money for living, then you are a professional. This is how I did it and this is how most of the other professional dancers did it (at least in the West. I don't know how exactly the career of the dancers in Middle East functions. I suppose kind of different). I think none of the pro-dancers just decided suddenly that she wants to become a pro. I mean, you can decide that, but it is not of much use, if you don't have enough people who would hire you for a performance or enough students who would visit your courses. Patience is very important!
On the other hand, it is very difficult to become a fully professional dancer, when you start dancing over 40. It is quite unrealistic (even if not impossible).
And a thing which unfortunately plays a role, is your looks. Of course it is relative what looks good and what not, but the whole picture has to be aesthetic somehow, if you want to make a living out of the dancing. This is not only a matter of the body type, but also a matter of the styling and of the radiation (I don't know if the last word is right in English, but I hope that you understand what I mean).
 

adiemus

New member
Chryssanthi - by 'radiation' do you mean the power of the personality that shines through a 'performance' (don't really like the word performance, more interpretation - there's something of the flavour of honesty that I like in that latter word).
 

nitewindz

New member
Nitewindz,

When you say "body type" what exactly do you mean? I will assume that you mean in good shape and height:weight porportonate since you slipped into your flame retardant bedlah!

BTW, I totally agree with the thing about gymnastics, which I had to stop when I was fairly young because I was already getting too tall even though I'm really not *that* tall as an adult (5'7 1/2) and was short until the end of high school. lol...

Well, that's part of what I meant. I'm not saying that people with other body types should not dance -- I think they should! A beautiful dancer is a beautiful dancer regardless of weight.

But what's beautiful and what's marketable are two different things ... and weirdly enough, what the Media Industry considers "marketable" isn't always what people prefer...Lots of guys prefer women with flesh over the stick figure fashion models that dominate the media. But you won't see short or curvy girls on the catwalk. Look at the lead actresses in movies and TV, with very few exceptions, they're all slender.

One of the reasons I enjoy Boston Legal is that Candice Bergman is not young or stick-thin, but the two lead male characters both have the hots for her!

Our society is so weird about weight. Young girls are starving themselves in an effort to be thinner than they can ever be... I have big shoulders and no matter how much weight I loose I will NEVER be smaller than a size 12 on top!
And on the other hand, medical experts are insisting that far too many people in our society are overweight, and that obesity is dangerous.

There's nothing wrong with being slender or plump, or curvy or pear shaped or apple shaped or long and lean. The problems start when a persons weight is so far out of proportion (over OR under) to their height and bone size and body shape that it begins to endanger their health.

But the Media Industry does not understand this and probably doesn't care to.

And then, there's my own personal experience, where my height put me at an advantage over shorter girls who could dance just as well as me if not better. Body type gave me an advantage, and other girls a disadvantage. We can, to a degree, control our weight but our height is our height!
 

nitewindz

New member
Hmm not always :think: I think having experience with another dance form can work against you in some cases.
I've only been bellydancing for almost 2.5 years now and ballroom & latin dancing for 1.5 years, but I already noticed I use a different technique for moving my hips than ballroom dancers do, because that's how I learned it at bellydance class. And I've heard bellydance teachers complain about "those annoying competitive ballroom dancers" in their class :lol:
A little off topic though, I'm sorry. I agree with the others, you can become a professional at an older age. I feel a lot of bellydance movements are more "natural" than for example ballet movements. The emotional connection is more important than being extremely flexible. This makes the dance more suitable to learn at an older age than, for example, ballet.

Yes BUT you NOTICE and UNDERSTAND the difference!! Believe it or not that gives you an edge over the people who haven't reached that level of body awareness!

And yes, while sports and other dance forms emphasize athletic prowess, bellydance emphasizes natural movements and emotional expression.
 

CurlyBellyGirl

New member
That is very true about the media and body type. I think that looks also play a part in everyday life in things like getting a job, getting good service at a store, or whatever. It's unfortunate that the media's perceptions of the ideal body type are not reality. I do, think, however that things are slowly changing with curvy starts, such as Beyonce, Scarlett Johansen, and Jennifer Lopez, being body role models. I realize they're both still slim, but they do have curves. :)

But, even when you have a nice figure, it does seem like there is still the age stigma in the mainstream media, although many of the big name "hot" female celebrities are starting to be a lot older and everyone is always talking about "30 is the new 20" and "40 is the new 30." lol...

In my case, I have not decided whether or not I do want to become a professional dancer (i.e. making my living that way), but I do want to feel like I have the option and not like because I did not start dancing when I was 18 or even 20 that it is something that is totally out of my reach and something I should never aspire to do because it's unreasonable. I feel like it's totally reasonable now and will continue to study and learn as much as possible about the dance and culutre and just see where it takes me! :)
 

LLAIMA

New member
CurlyBellyGirl,

d, not the dance itself. There are others who only care about making fast money, whether it is negatively affecting other people or the way dancing is perceived in the long run, it makes no difference to them. Bottom line, if you're thinking of becoming a professional dancer one day, make sure that you really ARE a professional and it is not just a label you attach next to your name.

:clap: THAT IS RIGHT MANY TIMES IS JUST AN EGO THING.

Also please, before dancing professionally inform yourself about Professional ethics:

-Don't undercut other dancers fees, stay within the price range for your area,
I had turned down many gigs because of this...There are many articles by Salome on this forum that might guide you on becoming professional dancer...Best wishes and remember, you don't have to be a professional to enjoy middle eastern music and have fun dancing!
thanks
 
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CurlyBellyGirl

New member
Well, I think people have a right to become a "professional" whatever and for whatever reason even if it is just about ego. I'm big on people being free to do what they want as long as they're not hurting someone else. ;) That said, if I do decide to become a professional then I would, of course, do all the necessary work and learn everything that I can. To me, a "professional" is someone who know the rules of business etiquette and conduct for all aspects of their business/industry and that and not just parts of it.

For me, I really just wondered if it was possible for one to become a professional when they are not quite so young if that is something that they choose to do and not necessarily specific for my own personal situation as I'm not decided either way. I am just on the dance journey and seeing where it takes me but, again, it's nice to know that I have options if I do want to walk the "professional" path and also that there are so many who are happy to help guide the way! :)
 

Aniseteph

New member
Well, I think people have a right to become a "professional" whatever and for whatever reason even if it is just about ego. I'm big on people being free to do what they want as long as they're not hurting someone else. ;)

I have to disagree. You have the right to become a professional whatever provided you put in the necessary training and come up to certain standards. If you are not very good you drag down the name of what you say you are doing, whether it's belly dance or plumbing. And the minimal-ability egomaniacs never see that they are part of the problem, they are always just being free.... :rolleyes:
 

CurlyBellyGirl

New member
I have to disagree. You have the right to become a professional whatever provided you put in the necessary training and come up to certain standards. If you are not very good you drag down the name of what you say you are doing, whether it's belly dance or plumbing. And the minimal-ability egomaniacs never see that they are part of the problem, they are always just being free.... :rolleyes:

You disagree with what people having the right to freedom? :rolleyes: Just because someone is doing something to feed their ego does not mean that they have not "put in the necessary training and come up to certain standards." We all have different motivations to propel us to do things and for some it may be ego or some it may be a love for art or whatever. There are quite a few very talent ego-maniacs in many different art forms and many forms in life period.

Having grown up the product of professional artists, I think that any form of art or entertainment is going to naturally attract some people who are egotistical and don't do it just for the love of the art. That doesn't mean they're not good at what they do or even amazing at what they do. It doesn't mean they don't study either. Having an ego is one thing and being well trained or well learned is another. So, I don't think one can make a blanket statement that one should not become a professional to feed thier own ego, which is why I said that people should be free to do as they want as long as they're not hurting anyone. I mean this is dance we're talking about, right?
 

Sara

New member
Hey Curly!

I think what Aniseteph was trying to say was that you do have to have a deep respect and consideration for the culture of the dance. There are a lot of people who dance to feed their ego and damage the work the majority of bellydancers do in trying to potray the dance in the correct light. I know that not eveyone that dances to 'feed their ego' is necessarily doing this.

If you are dancing to feed your ego though, are you really in the right mind-set to represent a cultural art form? :think: I think that could be a point to consider too.

I know to some extent the majority of artists like the buzz they get from performing. But for ego to be the main drive is a bit scary :think:

I'll have to think bout this one...
 

CurlyBellyGirl

New member
Maybe it depends on how one defines "ego." I mean, if you are dancing because it makes you feel good (even if you are not doing it properly and may possibly be sending the wrong message about this dance form) is that being egotistical or just ignorant? :)

I don't see how having a big ego means that you can't respect or "properly represent a cultural art-form" though. I also think that phrasing it as "representing a cultural art-form" statement could tie in with a whole different train of thought (which is not where I'm trying to go in this thread :lol:) about whether or not someone of another culture can ever properly represent a culture that they are not a part of and maybe those that represent themselves as doing that are being egotistical in even thinking they can ever truly capture the spirit of a culture? I'm not saying that's the case at all or that I think that, but just adding another idea to ponder myself as well... :)

Anyway, I see how none of this has to do with whehter or not it's possible to become a pro after a certain age, which was my initial question, so steering the conversation back to that :), do you think there is a certain cutoff when someone would not be able to be pro due to their age?
 

Sara

New member
I think it depends on what type of performances they're intending to give, and in what setting. Like a restuarant, or a fair, or a carnival or on stage.

If it's for a stage show like the BDSS put on then I think being younger is an advantage cause of energy levels, a 23 year old will have higher energy levels and keep up with the demands probably better than a 65 year old.

I'll explain better later. Gunna go bed, lol. All tired from uni. :D
 

Aniseteph

New member
I don't disagree with freedom, perhaps I misunderstood.

Of course people should have the freedom to pursue whatever profession they choose. If they make a good job of it and don't hurt anyone else, I don't care whether their motivation is; save the planet, make a lot of money, earn a crust, just be a wonderful human being, or show everyone how earth-shatteringly amazing they believe they are... I don't care - their issues, not mine.

But in belly dance it seems to be extremely common for people to get away with NOT making a good job of it, for a public that doesn't know any different. Performing or even teaching. :( How good a teacher you can be if it's all about you and not about your students? :think:

I agree a lot of people perform for the buzz it gives their ego. That's entirely normal - but IMHO seeking that buzz should never become more important than integrity about what you are doing.

As for what age is too late, I guess it depends where you are and what you want to do. If your local venues are mainly after eye candy you are generally going to have a harder time of it if you are older. If your area is saturated with teachers already it's going to be harder to build up a student base to make a living teaching.
 
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