Advice from a dancer

[Brea]

Hi all,

I was contacted by a local pro dancer in my area and she told me she had some advice for me. I was worried; perhaps I was not good/thin enough? However, I was very happy with what she told me.

She says that I am very obviously a folkloric dancer and I am a good dancer as well. She thinks I need to add more things to my movement vocabulary and that my weight is irrelevant. She told me that often when people are taught by women from the Middle East that the women tend to know a certain amount of moves and know them well but that there is a difference between what she calls 'party dancing' and 'stage dancing'.

I am thrilled that she thinks I am a good dancer, I am also relieved that my weight is not an issue, and I understand what she means about adding more things to my toolbox. I am curious whether there are any other folkloric-learned people here and what they have had to say; one thing this person told me was that shimmies are almost entirely a performance thing; the folkloric style does not have them, although you will see more people doing it now because the stage dance is so popular in Egypt particularly. This has really opened up my eyes to why my dancing is so different from what I have seen; it is really a difference in teachers and in what each person believes is belly dance.

Any comments on this are much welcome! I am interested to hear what you have to say.

 

[Tarik Sultan]

I think it's rather simplistic saying shimmies are not folkloric. You find it in Hagalla, Ghawazee, Bambuteya to name a few and it is also done in social dances as well. The movement vocabulary for the most part comes from the social dances. As for the ither points, I can't say because I haven't seen you dance yet, nor do I know anything about your teachers. Perhaps someone else can answer your main questions.

 

[Brea]

Hi Tarik,

I also was a bit confused by that; I assumed shimmies were involved in folkloric dance. However, I was very happy with what she said otherwise. It explained a lot of things that I have always wondered about when watching other dancers (like, why is my dancing so different?)

BTW- did you get my emails?

 

[Tarik Sultan]

Hi Tarik,

I also was a bit confused by that; I assumed shimmies were involved in folkloric dance. However, I was very happy with what she said otherwise. It explained a lot of things that I have always wondered about when watching other dancers (like, why is my dancing so different?)

BTW- did you get my emails?

Yes I did get them, but for some reason I don't think you're getting my replies. I said yes to everything.

 

[Brea]

Hi Tarik,

Oh! Darn it! I thought something like that might be happening. Hm. Weird how stuff that tells me I can get a bigger 'endowment' comes through but not mail from Tarik Sultan.



Computers are so weird.

 

[Kashmir]

Yep, been there - and embraced it. Very early on I was called by an experienced dancer "a folkdancer in bedleh" - at the time I had no idea what she meant (other than a put down). Now I don't wear bedleh that much I've basically gone for beledi styled belly dance (which I use for most of my performance work) and Egyptian folkloric (which there is rarely a call for other than Ethnic galas)

With regards to shimmies, they do appear in folkloric but are bigger and looser. You don't get that fine (modern) Egyptian shimmy.

 

[Brea]

Kashmir-

Exactly!!!! My shimmies are like that too! I often feared that dancers thought I was amateur...believe me, I am not, I have worked hard at this for nine long years. However, I dance Jordanian folkloric apparently...and no matter how many times I asked 'why does this look different? am I not as good of a dancer? I don't understand why my teacher taught me something so unique', etc. I never got a satisfactory answer from anyone. I actually never wore bedleh until a friend of mine encouraged me to because she said I'd have to wear it if I wanted to be professional.

I am so relieved that someone has told me that I am not a bad dancer, just someone who dances a different kind of dance than most. It's a hard thing to dance in a certain way for nine years and never have a slot to fit into (I'm not Egyptian cabaret or American or Turkish or whatever, though I have some training in these disciplines). So it is grand to know the answers to all this finally...and to know that she, at least, thinks I am talented.

 

[janaki]

Kashmir-

However, I dance Jordanian folkloric apparently...and no matter how many times I asked 'why does this look different? am I not as good of a dancer? I don't understand why my teacher taught me something so unique', etc. I never got a satisfactory answer from anyone.

So it is grand to know the answers to all this finally...and to know that she, at least, thinks I am talented.

Hi Brea,

I would like to ask what kind of Jordanian folk dance you do? I only know of Dabke (which is a national dance of Jordan) and other folk dance I have seen done mostly by men. But they are not similiar to egyptian folk dances like saidi, baladi style dance that a mainstream bellydancer uses in her/his reputoir.

Also I would like to know what is Jordanian style bellydance that you have mentioned in few of your posts? As far as my research and studies goes, I have never come across "Jordanian/style Belly dance", although there is lot of belly dancing happens in hotels and night clubs in Jordan.

I agree with Tarik. Shimmies are a part of folkloric dances and they are done more loose, big and earthy way. In oriental style they are done in a more controlled manner. I never do loose and very big shimmies when I dance oriental style. I only use these style of shimmies in folk dances.

Talented dancer vs Good dancer

A talented dancer is the one with natural abilty to dance. A good dancer is the one having desirable and suitable qualities (along with the talent) and whose uses these qualities to suite the dance she/he presenting. So being a good dancer is a very complex thing.

Weight issue.
I have read in few of your posts you have mentioned about your weight issue. From the pics on your site, you look fine to me. I don't see any concern here. Bellydance is one the dance form that encourages dancers of all shapes, sizes and ages. I am only concerned with the weight if it has any affects on the health. Let me tell you something. In Asia, girls are like stick insects. In their (not mine) view I am considered "fat". I considered myself average. I do more dance shows than any of my thin asian counterparts. The reason for this is, I am a good enough dancer (still a long way to go in my learning process), I reperesent the dance and its culture well. I get to do the all the good and sophisticated shows here in Hong Kong. I am not suitable and don't like to do cheap nightclub shows where the audience expect good body over good dance. My advise to you is not to be concerned with your weight, stay fit and healthy and focus on broadening your knowledge.

Hugs

 

[Kashmir]

Exactly!!!! My shimmies are like that too! I often feared that dancers thought I was amateur...believe me, I am not, I have worked hard at this for nine long years.

Some years back I had a couple of good oriental dancers come to a beledi course I put on. Those big, loose, "amateur" shimmies were the thing they struggled with most - and I don't think they really got them. So, no they aren't amateur but different and difficult enough in their own way.

 

[Amanda (was Aziyade)]

"Folkloric" is one of those words that means different things to different people, and in different parts of the country.


I've seen it used in the following ways:

"folkloric" = "beledi" or social dancing, sometimes

"folkloric" = "dancing flat footed"

"folkloric" = "without a lot of upper body ballet influence"

"folkloric" = "actual folk or ethnic dances of a specific people"

"folkloric" = "earthier and more grounded in appearance"


There IS a difference between social/party dance and stage dancing -- but you see that even in our culture. Performance Ballroom does not equal a night of foxtrot at the Moose Lodge.

I'd check out Hadia's dvds if you want to see how you can "Orientalize" your style a little more, if you're concerned about being stuck in "social dance" mode. She's talked about this in her workshops.

 

[karena]

"Folkloric" is one of those words that means different things to different people, and in different parts of the country.


I've seen it used in the following ways:

"folkloric" = "beledi" or social dancing, sometimes

...

"folkloric" = "earthier and more grounded in appearance"

To me it means folk dance developed into stage dance; so staged and less 'authentic' versions of folk dances (like Reda)

 

[Brea]

Hi,

Well, she didn't make it sound like I was a bad/amateur dancer. I think she just meant I danced in a more 'ethnic' way than a 'stage' way. When I refer to Jordanian dance that's what I mean; my teacher was from Jordan and taught me what she learned growing up.