innovation freestyle bellydance workshop and hafla

Moon

New member
That looks like a hiphop dance workshop with "some bellydance movements incorporated as well" :think:
 

Ariella

New member
If anyone can explain how the posture used in hip-hop and the posture used in belly dance are compatible, I'm all ears.
 

KuteNurse

New member
I do not even see any belly dancing movements involved. Interesting, but not belly dance material. Maybe some are interested or do hip hop dancing here....
 

jbeast

New member
The Workshop

Ok there are many elements to this workshop- I as a man have studied bellydancing for one- popping is a part of bellydancing, ticking is a part of bellydancing, isolation is a part of bellydancing, and many more movements. I have already done workshops with gothic and tribal bellydancing thats has really taken thier dance to another level. Most movements in dance are related from history anyway its just style or approach to the dance(not to mention the music).I also teach different ways of bieng one with the music and freestyling with thier bellydancing. These are not just hip-hop movements these are performing techniques for all types of dance. As you know character and personality is a problem in all dance styles. I have learned tribal dance. I have taught and seen great improvements in all dances that these techniques were used. I hope this makes sense to all. any questions I will be happy to talk to you . email -jaronjoiner@yahoo.com
ACTUALLY THE ONLY REASON I AM DOING THIS WORKSHOP IS BECAUSE IT WAS REQUESTED BY 4 LARGE STUDIOS BETWEEN 50-100 DANCERS-IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO TALK TO ANYONE WHO HAS TAKEN A WORKSHOP I WILL BE HAPPY TO GIVE YOU THE REFERENCES.
THIS BASICALLY APPLIES TO OPENMINDED PEOPLE WILLING TO LEARN FROM DIFFERENT PEOPLE-YOU ALMOST HAVE TO BE THERE TO UNDERSTAND IT.
 

teela

New member
You say you studied belly dance? how long did you study? what type of belly dance did you study? What I saw indicated to me that you do types of dance other than belly dance. Have you actually performed as a belly dancer? I'm just curious about your credentials in regard to belly dance.
 

Kashmir

New member
Ok there are many elements to this workshop- I as a man have studied bellydancing for one- popping is a part of bellydancing, ticking is a part of bellydancing, isolation is a part of bellydancing, and many more movements. I have already done workshops with gothic and tribal bellydancing thats has really taken thier dance to another level.
But "belly dance" is more than a movement vocab. It is the approach to the music; its how you bring yourself to be the music. I've seen performances by fresh students which consist of them standing on stage and running through a series of isolations to music. Power to them to have the guts to stand up there - but I hoped their teachers took them aside later and gently explained the different between dancing and drilling. :confused:
 

Amanda (was Aziyade)

Well-known member
You'll note this is not being advertised as a bellydance workshop. The focus is to learn how to create individual stylization, for dancers of all sorts.

Kira caters to her crowd, and that crowd loves dance and movement. She's had Tai Chi, Capoeira, Spanish Dancing, Salsa, Tango, and other stuff at the studio.

I'd love to take this workshop. I love breakdancing but always feel so awkward with it. And I'd LOVE to see some of the younger tribal fusion dancers learn how to be themselves, and not Rachel/Zoe/Sharon clones. TF dance sometimes incorporates breakdance moves, so this seems like a perfect workshop for them.
 
If anyone can explain how the posture used in hip-hop and the posture used in belly dance are compatible, I'm all ears.
I've watched hip-hop dancing evolve from it's earliest beginnings to it's current point in mainstream acceptance.
1) What mainstream audiences call hip-hop, is really an evolution springing from the urban and rural social dances of African-American and Hispanic cultures.Atomic Dog anyone?
2) The postures are very different. In hip-hop there is a wider stance of the legs with body lower to the ground(descended from West African style dance). In theatrical Oriental dance,the posture is upright, with emphasis on tilted pelvis. Both styles of dance use core muscles to create movement.
3)Hip-hop incorporates polycentric movements(like West African dance) whereas Oriental dance is based on isolations that are layered and combined.An example of polycentric movement:
Rib cage slides/circle are often done with shoulder moves,hence the visual impact of the dance being energetic and powerful. In contrast, Oriental dance, one would see just rib moves but no simultaneous shoulder movement, the internalized movement would be seen as more refined.
4) There is greater emphasis on fancy foot work and greater use of space in hip-hop. Usually the legs are prominenty displayed. Very athletic compare to Oriental dance. it is rae to see a hip-hop dancer in releve.
5)In terms of the 'pops and locks', truly a hip-hop dance vocabulary driven by the consistent 4/4 beat found in hip-hop music. One cannot discount how the music shapes the dance. The music calls for tight contraction(lock) and release(pop) of various muscle groups moving in a polycentric manner. Nowadays, Modern Arabic pop/fusion music has incorporated prominent use of percussion, that mimics hip-hop music. Hence, more and more bellydancers are using pops and locks in their dance. It's not part of traditional Oriental dance vocabulary.(personally, I think many tribal fusion dancers are doing more hip-hop than bellydance...the removal of the dance from the true urban cultural roots looks odd and disjointed!)
6) Both dance styles use hip moves very extensivelly, hence the crossover appeal.
7) Both men and women dance hip-hop theatrically, with no difference in movement between genders. In other words, the essence of the dance is not based on gender but on energy ,flexibility and power, which both genders can assume. Well we already know the debate regarding this subject in oriental dance:rolleyes:
Yasmine
 

Amanda (was Aziyade)

Well-known member
Excellent post!!!

5)In terms of the 'pops and locks', truly a hip-hop dance vocabulary driven by the consistent 4/4 beat found in hip-hop music. One cannot discount how the music shapes the dance. The music calls for tight contraction(lock) and release(pop) of various muscle groups moving in a polycentric manner. Nowadays, Modern Arabic pop/fusion music has incorporated prominent use of percussion, that mimics hip-hop music. Hence, more and more bellydancers are using pops and locks in their dance.

I'm just thinking of a night when I heard "Apache" on the dance floor, and saw several girls accenting the brass fanfares in that song with chest contractions (pops or locks -- whichever). At the time I remember wondering which came first: the use of pops and locks in social dance or in belly dance. LOL.

I've got a 4-cd set of "Arabian Rai" and 90% of the songs sound like American rap songs. Makes you wonder -- is this kind of Rai coming from the same place, socially and economically, that American hiphop comes from? And what about British rap/hiphop? Does that come from the same social and economic place? We have race issues that come out in American rap a lot -- can the same be said of Britian or Egypt? Just curious, actually...


(personally, I think many tribal fusion dancers are doing more hip-hop than bellydance...the removal of the dance from the true urban cultural roots looks odd and disjointed!)

Do you mean the removal of hiphop from its true roots, or the removal of bellydance from its true roots? I wasn't clear on that.

BTW -- I think Tribal Fusion (whatever it will end up being) is still SO in its infancy, that it hasn't really yet "jelled" into whatever solid form it will be known to historians as. It will either die out, or form into something with semi-recognizable boundaries, like "krumping" did.

Are a lot of the TF dancers doing too much popping and locking? Yes -- I'd agree. But I think it's because they haven't really figured out how to "fuse" what they're doing. All the fluid snakey stuff combined with popping and locking just looks like Electric Boogaloo to me (which is cool in its own right, but I'd like to see them work on fusing more actual BELLYDANCE into it.)
 
Hi Aziyade, I was refering to the removal from the hip-hop roots. The fusion of hip-hop and bellydance is a natural fusion in terms of movement. But the difficulty comes from what each dance represents to it's respective cultural base. You were right on the mark in describing hip-hop as an extension of the socio-economic foundation of urban culture in American society. The music is powerful and not necessaily joyful,coquettish or flowing. I'm not surprised that rai (which is a form of social protest) would have this element in common with hip-hop.

I agree that Tribal fusion is still in it's infancy...much different that ATS which fuses Indian, Flamenco with Egyptian Raks.With that being said, I enjoy the communal and joyful expression of the ATS dance form. Tribal fusion with it's emphasis on industrial electronica not only leaves me feeling cold, but in addition the hip-hop moves seem out of sync emotionally. The movements are too slow, absent footwork and energy coupled with stationary positioning, is too boring to even be considered trance or meditative.

The tribal fusionists are good dancers, no doubt about that, but whenever I see Rachel et al dance...I get that white-bread hip-hop feel. There is emotion to the dance form(hip-hop) that is lacking in the sterile pop/locks and the facial expression that appears as if everyone took a Valium! TF dancers hit the same accents in the music as a hip-hop dancer but they often miss the flow seen wih Oriental dancers.
It would be very difficult to add more bellydance elements if the chosen music is not created to express those moves. Really in order to fuse the best of each dance form, the music has to hold elements of both..industrial music doesn't fit the bill.
here's a clip posted in another thread. It shows a girl dancing to Sean Paul's "Temperature'(which is reggae/hip-hop fusion).

YouTube - Chelsea performs @ Tribal Fest 6

In this clip she does a fantastic job in fusing the elements in the right mix.
1) Note how her stance changes throughout the dance.
2) Good use of polycentric moves from the upper body..she's hitting not only the beats but flowing with the melody
3)Good foot work and balance between stationary moves and energetic travel.
4)Hip work with the legs together is bellydance...hip work with wider stance is hip-hop, Very good representation of the same moves but different style seen back to back.
I think she did an excellent job!
Yasmine
 

karena

New member
Makes you wonder -- is this kind of Rai coming from the same place, socially and economically, that American hiphop comes from? And what about British rap/hiphop? Does that come from the same social and economic place? We have race issues that come out in American rap a lot -- can the same be said of Britian or Egypt? Just curious, actually...

For what it's worth (I have very limited hip hop knowledge), I would say in Britain hip hop's roots are in pretty much black, urban, deprived areas. I would say there is some transmission beyond this, but pretty much in the context of this black, urban, street thing being cool in other classes, but its roots are still there. But I think it is pretty American influenced. I'd struggle to identify much British hip hop. The only one I can identify would be The Streets. This is interesting as the main guy is white. This then crossed over into other classes, lots of the middle classes would also listen to The Streets (because he's white? because it's very british hip hop? it would be interesting to be able to study why). It came from urban roots (I would say black too) but whether it was then seen as 'sold out', I don't know. There was much interest in the fact that although the guy seemed urban and street, he actually went to private school (reminds me alot of what i have heard of Hakim), although I think he is still seen as credible. It is very British hip hop; it has lots of UK references and slang. Here's the first 'hit' on you tube YouTube - The Streets- Mike Skinner

But really, I don't know jack. Just thought I'd give an idea of what happens in Britain as you're curious, but I'd take me with a huge pinch of salt. I am far too white and middle class to really know.... :)
 

Safran

New member
This then crossed over into other classes, lots of the middle classes would also listen to The Streets (because he's white? because it's very british hip hop? it would be interesting to be able to study why). It came from urban roots (I would say black too) but whether it was then seen as 'sold out', I don't know. There was much interest in the fact that although the guy seemed urban and street, he actually went to private school (reminds me alot of what i have heard of Hakim), although I think he is still seen as credible. It is very British hip hop; it has lots of UK references and slang. Here's the first 'hit' on you tube YouTube - The Streets- Mike Skinner

I LOVE The Streets... Mainly, because I find the lyrics smart and their music mixes are always a bit unusual or "dissonant" when you listen to them at first.

Can't contribute much to the general hip-hop discussion though. Where I come from the hip hop culture is still taking its baby steps. I personally do like the music - if it is really good hip hop music, then it is also layered and has different faces, almost as Arab music. I also took a few months of hip hop dance classes in autumn, which I enjoyed very much - it was so different from belly dance and had a lot of energy in it.
 

jbeast

New member
Hi I just want to thank all the positive feedback that I have recieved from all dancers. It goes to show that there is so much to learn from dance, and we will all be students in dance. dance free
 

belly_dancer

New member
good luck jbeast!!!
.... it sounds like you are offering a great class that would benefit dancers of all styles. I think it is good to keep learning.. not only from those that came "before" but those who come after too...
have you seen the videos of Earl "snake-hips"Tucker???
I am & always will be ONLY a Belly Dancer... but would love to take your class
thank you for sharing your dance.
 

Makeda Maysa

New member
Yasmine, thank you so much for the excellent posts. I agree that a lot of the tribal fusion I see being done leave me with that "white bread hip-hop feeling". Having grown up with hip-hop myself (I'm turning 30 this year), I, too, find that seeing someone doing the movements when they are so clearly removed from their cultural background can be kind of off-putting or at least perplexing. Which is why I can so understand those dancers who find tribal fusion in itself, kind of off-putting, because they feel that the movements of bellydance are being used without having any connection to the culture. Still, I find myself performing fusion bellydance a lot - because I have a love for and interest in, both cultures - that of Middle Eastern dance and that of hip-hop dance. Hip-hop is what I know; it is what I was raised with and part of who I am. It became a natural fusion for me - having always danced in a particular style and to particular music, once I began to study and love a new dance form and type of music, they just melded together.
 

TiaSerena

Member
I would love to take this class. Wish I was in the area. I think speciality classes like this can always benefit a dancer... no matter what kind. I seriously need a speciality ballet class for belly dancers to assist with my posture and arms. I really think hip hop knowledge will help with isolation in belly dance. It would probably help me more with Bollywood/Bhangra though. Anyway... I hope the students enjoy and take from the class!
 

jbeast

New member
I just want to thank all the dancers that attended the workshop, you all were amazing. If anyone is ever interested in a workshop - I do travel and if there is a specific area and a certain amout of students , I can arrange one in your area. Thank you
 
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