Props and animals in dance

[adiemus]

I first asked this question when someone made a comment on a video saying it was 'fantasy' rather than ME dance. Since then it seems that there are a multitude of opinions, but most people seem to see that veil is popular, an enjoyable part of the dance and that it's more about how the veil is used than whether it is used.
Now for the question about other props - and how a 'decision' is made as to whether a prop is OK or not. What i'm thinking of now is animals (yes, the snake, but probably not a poodle!), and fans. I love fans personally but I see a fan as being either japanese/chinese or italian, and therefore not really appropriate for bellydance. I'm personally not keen on animals in dance, because I don't like to see them on stage, in the glare of lights and under stress - and dogs don't dance with elegance IMHO!!

What about dancing on top of a large drum?
Or dancing with a water jug (large earthen one)?

Keen to find out what others think.

BTW not liking snakes in dance is absolutely NO reflection on you Brea!! It's just something I don't want to see. I love snakes actually, but thankfully we have none here in NZ, and long may that last - no nasties to accidentally step on in the long grass...

 

[Kashmir]

Or dancing with a water jug (large earthen one)?

Water jugs are traditional in Tunisian dance. Often with more than one

With snakes, I read an interview with Jamila Salimpour where she explained how Bal Anat with its circus focus had a man with a snake. For some reason she was left looking after the snake and had to go on stage and dance so she incorporated the snake into the act and it became a fixture. This would have been late 1960s/1970s. At this point I'd say this was the first use in association with the dance. Anyone got anything earlier?

 

[Ligeia]

I am quite liberal about using props - but there is one condition: props should ephasize/flatter the dance, not draw attention away from it. I would like to dance with my parents dog, but it is so cute little thing that everyone would stare at it and not me . And for me it is also about how you name the dance. If you call your dance "fantasy bellydance" you are free to use any prop you will (as long as you do it with taste, of course). So IMHO using fans is ok, if you can find a way to use them so that it suits to belly dance technique.

 

[Lydia]

I love to dance using props...al kind of veils,sagat,khaleegydress,asaya,drums,and yes waterjars,shamadan,i even used ones a flowerbasket and i carry,d it around giving all the lady,s a flower from the basket,the lyrics from the song went like ,,how much are you selling this flowers boss,, people loved it.....o did you see ,,daniella,, the eagle?? i used her in the show to....you must see the faces from the audiance when she comes flying in,she comes flying in and lands on my arm (i am having my musicians almost in panick at that point LOL,I did that show in Dubai when i performed at the dubai airshow ,people loved her.....

 

[gisela]

OMG Lydia, what I would give to see your show! Must be absolutely spectacular!:shok:

sorry for not adding anything to the topic.

 

[adiemus]

I'm glad I don't have to carry TWO water jugs!!! or the bird or the snake, and with the relationship between me and my veil and cane, perhaps we'd better not add to the menagerie, as I would come off worse...!
Apart from zills, they are not a prop, they're an instrument

 

[Andrea Deagon]

Kashmir, I have an earlier snake dance reference -- so much earlier that it may not even be part of an unbroken tradition! Princess Rajah (one of the few dancers filmed by Thomas Edison, the video is available online) made her break onto the big-time vaudeville stage in 1908 doing a "Cleopatra dance" in which she performed with a live snake. She wore a bra-and-belt costume very similar to the ones being worn by most Salome dancers at the time. Too bad Edison didn't film that! Anyhow, I would bet that between 1910 and 1970 there were a lot of carnival/circus/fairgrounds acts that combined snake charming and pseudo-oriental costumes and moves, and given Jamila's circus background, those acts could be the real impetus for the snake dance's resurfacing in belly dance in the 70's.

Joy in dance,

Andrea

 

[adiemus]

Andrea that sounds very reasonable - I wonder if anyone has any documentation from that period re circus acts and dance and animal props?

 

[Serpentessa]

ethical & intriguing snake dancing does exist

Hi Andrea,

Thanks for that info on Princess Rajah doing a "Cleopatra dance" with a snake in 1908. I hadn't heard that before. I will certainly look online to see if I can check out the video although I won't buy it if it's not well done.

I am extremely picky about dancing with a snake/s as an equal and always improvising partner. They are not props - end of story! It doesn't matter what type of dance, what context, whether it's entertainment, theatre or movies. Hence, I included on my dvd a very comprehensive Snake Dance Instructional, especially after seeing TV footage of some well known dancers who were dancing with their snakes as though they were not alive! The snake's head was bouncing all over the place. It was horrendous and painful to watch. The majority of snakes that are used in dancing and performing are the constrictors that will swallow their stress and get sick or react and bite to protect themselves. Yet all people will focus on is that the snake turned vicious, not assessing the inhumane treatment the serpent endured. It's sad and only contributes to the stigma of the snake.

All of earth's creatures are our teachers. We forget that at one time, the domesticated dog and cat were completely wild and "not to be trusted" when truly we needed time to learn from them and they from us through inter species communication. As someone who facilitates inter species communication and safe physical connection with certain types of snakes, it is my job as a snake priestess to be fully aware and respect everyone's instinctual responses to snakes. It is vital to pay attention to those instincts and I encourage that knowledge to guide one in their choice to be with - or not to be with a serpent. Sorry to hijack the thread for a few sentences, but I am passionately committed to this path.

Anyway, to answer Adiemus' question about snake dancing: I work in the entertainment field as a snake charming belly dancer as well as in the theatre. Throughout all my performing with serpents, I work hard to have a smooth integration or duet with my snake, so that the attention culled is more ancient and alluring rather than sensation focused. The majority of my theatrical dances incorporate a mythological theme experienced within a modern perspective that integrates the personal realm within the collective realm for the audience. There are small segments of these on Utube under my name for anyone interested.

Also, for Adiemus - as for "documentation from that period re circus acts and dance and animal props?"
I've only found a card deck showing vaudeville and circus people with snakes. PM me if you want the name of the company. But I haven't had time to do much research in this area. I too am interested in what people may know.

Your friendly neighborhood snake priestess,
Serpentessa

 

[Kashmir]

Princess Rajah (one of the few dancers filmed by Thomas Edison, the video is available online) made her break onto the big-time vaudeville stage in 1908 doing a "Cleopatra dance" in which she performed with a live snake.

Great info - thanks Andrea.

 

[Andrea Deagon]

Just to clarify -- The video of Princess Rajah shows her doing a brief oriental dance and an act where she balances a chair in her teeth; it lasts a little over minute. It's available free of charge from the Library of Congress American Memories site (too lazy to look up the link) and I think is also available free on several other web sites too. No video of the snake dance, just recollections by old vaudevillians and archival photos (though none with the actual snake). But, I would love to know what she did with it!

Joy in dance,
Andrea

 

[adiemus]

Thanks so much Andrea for your info - and Serpentessa, I'm glad to hear your thoughts on the humane treatment of snakes, as no animal should suffer for the sake of human desire to 'entertain'!
What a rich heritage we have today, what a shame so much is lost in history too..

 

[Lydia]

Hi there i am with you about all animalacts i do pitty animals used for circus enz...Daniella (the bird that i use) is not only just a prop....she was rescued from the petmarket in a very poor condition and would have died if the trainer did not take her home,she can not be in the wild because she was born in captivety and dont know how to hunt yet,aswell she would not servive this birds are hunted here and shot because they pray on falcons and falcons are used traditional in the gulf for hunting sindts century,s and are very expensive birds so the owners are not happy to see eagle,s around and shoot them...so Daniella is now with this person the trainer,and he is getting her a mate, so little ones can be born and set free at the moment there are just a few left it the wild overhere and the same trainer now is trying to get a law treu that it is forbidden to shoot them....so he is doing a great job,aswell after the show the audiance is able to have a close look at daniella and the trainer is talking about her and her species so its a educational and very nice oportunety to understand abou this bird and habitat and that its not good to kill them...beside that she is amazing, i am not realy ,,dancing,, with her she is far to heavy anyway,but she comes flying to me at one point in the show sits on my arm for 2 ,3 minutes and fly back to the trainer that is standing about 30 meters away from me,specialy when we are in the desert to perform its realy amazing to watch....

 

[adiemus]

That sounds so great Lydia, it's wonderful to see how you have helped people understand her, and what a wonderful educational opportunity (oh and how incredible to be able to see such an amazing bird close-up!!)

 

[Lydia]

If there would be space somewhere i love to share some pics of here at home and with the trainer ,you will love her Adiemus,but i dont know where i could post the picture,s perhaps i can send it to your private mailbox or something?

 

[Serpentessa]

Hi Lydia,

How wonderful to hear what you are doing with your eagle Daniella! Helping the trainer educate people through your show is somewhat similar to what I do in shows as well except that I'm the trainer and dancer combined. Sometimes I'm so wrapped up in snakes I can't tell the difference.http://forum.orientaldancer.net/images/smilies/think.gif

I'd love to see photos or video when you get a chance. I've enjoyed watching your other posted videos....you have a very engaging quality in your dance and persona. I'm certain that lets people relax after the initial wow factor of seeing Daniella fly onto you! I've helped many a person understand their instinctual fear of snakes and move towards another choice to perhaps touch the snake through my belly dancing and entertainment gigs. It's like they see us do it first and may be naturally inspired to do so themselves.

My first 3 serpents were some rescues, some who needed new homes. And then they enchanted me! Baby snakes happened by accident so I now have 9 of the same species. Plenty enough to not overwork any one snake....this is very important.

In closing, I wanted to add that the bird and the snake are the two animal totems found in nearly every culture's mythologies over many thousands of years. They are known for their profound natural metaphorical wisdom even as in nature they are predator and prey in equal measure to each other. For humanity they also represent the paradox of the body and the soul: the snake is the cycle of life/death/rebirth and the bird is transcendance of the immortal soul.

You are the first person I know honoring the eagle in some of your dance shows. That is inspiring to me. Please show us pictures when you can!

Your friendly neighborhood snake priestess,
Serpentessa

 

[Serpentessa]

Hi Lydia,

How wonderful to hear what you are doing with your eagle Daniella! Helping the trainer educate people through your show is somewhat similar to what I do in shows as well except that I'm the trainer and dancer combined. Sometimes I'm so wrapped up in snakes I can't tell the difference. ;>0

I'd love to see photos or video when you get a chance. I've enjoyed watching your other posted videos....you have a very engaging quality in your dance and persona. I'm certain that lets people relax after the initial wow factor of seeing Daniella fly onto you! I've helped many a person understand their instinctual fear of snakes and move towards another choice to perhaps touch the snake through my belly dancing and entertainment gigs. It's like they see us do it first and may be naturally inspired to do so themselves.

My first 3 serpents were some rescues, some who needed new homes. And then they enchanted me! Baby snakes happened by accident so I now have 9 of the same species. Plenty enough to not overwork any one snake....this is very important.

In closing, I wanted to add that the bird and the snake are the two animal totems found in nearly every culture's mythologies over many thousands of years. They are known for their profound natural metaphorical wisdom even as in nature they are predator and prey in equal measure to each other. For humanity they also represent the paradox of the body and the soul: the snake is the cycle of life/death/rebirth and the bird is transcendance of the immortal soul.

You are the first person I know honoring the eagle in some of your dance shows. That is inspiring to me. Please show us pictures when you can!

Your friendly neighborhood snake priestess,
Serpentessa

 

[Lydia]

serpentessa....thank you for the nice compliments!! if you send me a private emailadres i will mail some of her pictures some other members did the same..i dont know if it would be the correct thing to mail them in this threat or anywhere else in the forum, but i love to share the pics with anybody that is interested...have a great day ,Lydia

 

[adiemus]

And they're wonderful photographs!!! thank you Lydia!

 

[Lydia]

you are welcome...i send them to anybody that want to peek ,hope that the animalcarefever catch on LOL ,HAVE AGREAT DAY