What about a belly dance and burlesque show?
- Thread starter Sapphira
- Start date
Bellydeluxe
New member
I'm really interested in Burlesque and have to say that this style doesn't really interest the French lot...As if they didn't want to have fun
I know it's getting big in England as more clubs are opening and some of my friends who are bellydancers are now also appearing as Burlesque artists.
I know in France, if you take one piece of clothes off, it's automatically linked with sex and French people are not so much into watching.
On the dancers' side, it looks like they take dance and themselves far too seriously...so obviously I'm an Alien here !
I have discovered 3 weeks ago on a late TV programme this woman who you may know already:
Dr Sketchy's Anti Art School: New York
I have contacted her and she gave me the contact of somebody in Paris who is going to organise something similar. I will let you know if the whole thing happen.
I know it's getting big in England as more clubs are opening and some of my friends who are bellydancers are now also appearing as Burlesque artists.
I know in France, if you take one piece of clothes off, it's automatically linked with sex and French people are not so much into watching.
On the dancers' side, it looks like they take dance and themselves far too seriously...so obviously I'm an Alien here !
I have discovered 3 weeks ago on a late TV programme this woman who you may know already:
Dr Sketchy's Anti Art School: New York
I have contacted her and she gave me the contact of somebody in Paris who is going to organise something similar. I will let you know if the whole thing happen.
A UK belly dance teacher is holding a "Ladies' Burlesque Night" in Wiltshire and has posted it on one of the UK belly dance message boards. Two men have expressed an interest, one of them a belly dancer. This is her response:
"Hi Dan and Richard
I am not intending to exclude men from Burlesque events in Wiltshire
and the only reason I've started the ladies nights is because many
women have serious body issues and I hope this will give them the
confidence to go public...or it may just be a fun way to get fit,or
just be an audience for those who do want to get on stage.
In general (though you don't have to)Burlesque involves striptease
usually just down to pasties at the minimum, and even if its only a
fun and risque way, there are few women who would be happy to do this
in public. Its a bit different between men and women going
topless. There are many women who won't even do any belly dancing
with men around because the moves are sensual and sexy and they feel
vulnerable.
You could always start up Burlesque nights for men and we could join
up to put on a Show for those who feel ready!(same goes for Middle-
Eastern/belly dance) I'm hoping to be in a Burlesque Show in London
later this year..can't wait!!"
"Hi Dan and Richard
I am not intending to exclude men from Burlesque events in Wiltshire
and the only reason I've started the ladies nights is because many
women have serious body issues and I hope this will give them the
confidence to go public...or it may just be a fun way to get fit,or
just be an audience for those who do want to get on stage.
In general (though you don't have to)Burlesque involves striptease
usually just down to pasties at the minimum, and even if its only a
fun and risque way, there are few women who would be happy to do this
in public. Its a bit different between men and women going
topless
. There are many women who won't even do any belly dancingwith men around because the moves are sensual and sexy and they feel
vulnerable.
You could always start up Burlesque nights for men and we could join
up to put on a Show for those who feel ready!(same goes for Middle-
Eastern/belly dance) I'm hoping to be in a Burlesque Show in London
later this year..can't wait!!"
Andrea - fabulous posts! :clap:
Burlesque was, indeed, working class in origin, as were the stars of early Music Hall and Variety in England. The middle classes used media such as satirical political writings and cartoons to express their dissatisfaction.
As for the neo-Burlesque (might "pseudo-Burlesque" be a better title?) movement, one audience member might see retro-kitsch-irony in frilly knickers but the person next to them just sees a girl taking off her clothes and dancing about a bit.
Burlesque was, indeed, working class in origin, as were the stars of early Music Hall and Variety in England. The middle classes used media such as satirical political writings and cartoons to express their dissatisfaction.
As for the neo-Burlesque (might "pseudo-Burlesque" be a better title?) movement, one audience member might see retro-kitsch-irony in frilly knickers but the person next to them just sees a girl taking off her clothes and dancing about a bit.
eshta amar
New member
Not to be a brat but - next big thing or not - I think that lumping belly dance in with burlesque does a profound disservice to our community. There is a HUGE difference between both and we will never be taken seriously as a dance form if we start doing burlesque/stripping in tandem. I am very very very against it! And by the way....I am american and a friend of Farhana's. But I must say that it makes me extremely disappointed that dancers are championing this fusion. Burlesque - fine. But not together with belly dance. I can't tell you how wrong I feel this is.
As for history did anyone ever bother to think that it was as offensive back then as a fusion as it would be today?
By the way people in Los Angeles ask me all the time if I belly dance naked or half naked because guess what? They saw a burlesque/belly dance show and thought they went together!@&^^#%$@^#$@
Please!!!!!!!!! 3 steps forward and 2 steps back - that seems to be the way of it.
As for history did anyone ever bother to think that it was as offensive back then as a fusion as it would be today?
By the way people in Los Angeles ask me all the time if I belly dance naked or half naked because guess what? They saw a burlesque/belly dance show and thought they went together!@&^^#%$@^#$@
Please!!!!!!!!! 3 steps forward and 2 steps back - that seems to be the way of it.
eshta amar
New member
I just also wanted to say - about the youtube clip earlier in the thread - I do not consider that burlesque at all. That was musical theatre/stage dance. Burlesque to me is gypsy rose lee, sally rand, etc....nudity and all....but tasteful.
I agree - I don't think that clip is burlesque, either. Dancing in a corset doesn't make a performance burlesque any more than dancing in a sequinned bra makes it belly dance.
Here's a clip from a UK talent show - these girls evidently think they're performing burlesque but all I see is a couple of young girls doing a slightly risque dance routine (tame by MTV standards) in their underwear:
Aniseteph
New member
I'm a brat too
.That's exactly what, er, annoyed me about the original post - we have been relatively free of the bellydancer=stripper connotations over here, but people who you think might be expected to know better or maybe care about belly dance seem determined to shove them together. Happy happy just a bit of empowering fun blah blah blah NO IT ISN'T!
And I agree Suheir, that was just dancing in your pants.
Tabitha
New member
Oh, that poor bed sheet.
Aisha Azar
New member
Movies
Dear Gang,
Belly dance, in the movies in the cultural setting of Egypt and other Middle Eastern countries, often served the exact same purpose as this dance did in its time in the European setting. Belly dance was often used as the scene that let you know that something sexual was about to go on behind closed doors that could not be shown on screen. Or it was used as the background action that let the audience know the location was sleazy or that something not quite above board was about to happen, or the dancer often was seen dancing in situations where the actor had to portray some heavy emotion while sitting still and doing nothing. I think I said somewhere in this forum that belly dancers on film were often like wallpaper or scene set. Their purpose was very rarely the dance itself. This kind of mechanism is even seen in many of the comedies of Egyptian film. It was rarely about the dance, just as this piece here is not really about that...er... dance, but just a prelude to other action. Even in movies about the dancer, it was rarely about the dancing, but instead about enhancing the action and emotion of the film.
Regards,
A'isha
Dear Gang,
Belly dance, in the movies in the cultural setting of Egypt and other Middle Eastern countries, often served the exact same purpose as this dance did in its time in the European setting. Belly dance was often used as the scene that let you know that something sexual was about to go on behind closed doors that could not be shown on screen. Or it was used as the background action that let the audience know the location was sleazy or that something not quite above board was about to happen, or the dancer often was seen dancing in situations where the actor had to portray some heavy emotion while sitting still and doing nothing. I think I said somewhere in this forum that belly dancers on film were often like wallpaper or scene set. Their purpose was very rarely the dance itself. This kind of mechanism is even seen in many of the comedies of Egyptian film. It was rarely about the dance, just as this piece here is not really about that...er... dance, but just a prelude to other action. Even in movies about the dancer, it was rarely about the dancing, but instead about enhancing the action and emotion of the film.
Regards,
A'isha
I'm currently listening to top UK burlesque performer, Immodesty Blaize, being interviewed on BBC Radio 6 Music: BBC - 6 Music - Homepage She's on the Nemone Show, 1pm-4pm, it should be on Listen Again later (the interview starts at 3pm).
Immodesty was asked: "What is burlesque?" and her reply was "Erotic and ironic cabaret...it's not just a dance routine in fishnets"
She also said that burlesque was started in 1860s London by Lydia Thompson and taken to the States. Minsky's developed it into striptease in the 1930s.
Immodesty was asked: "What is burlesque?" and her reply was "Erotic and ironic cabaret...it's not just a dance routine in fishnets"
She also said that burlesque was started in 1860s London by Lydia Thompson and taken to the States. Minsky's developed it into striptease in the 1930s.
Aisha Azar
New member
Dance in the movies, etc.
Dear Gisela,
I worked in theatre as a costume designer and I learned a lot about why things are done the way they are, in listening to directors, set builders, lighting people etc. Contrivances to make the scene more intense in some way are often used very effectively and do not appear to be what they are. I figured this out only after working behind the scenes in theatre for awhile. It got to be a bad thing for me to go to the movies because I spent the whole time analyzing why this or that, which seemed to have little to do with the action, actually happened, or why someone was wearing a particular costume, or how come they decided to shoot this scene in that light, etc. I am getting over it now, thank goodness because it was getting to be a job of work to go to the movies or the theatre or the ballet or anything else. In film and theatre, there is very little that is done just for its own sake. I would suggest to anyone, the next time you see an Egyptian film with dance, to look for the different ways in which belly dance is utilized to support the action, as opposed to being there for its own sake.
Regards,
A'isha
Dear Gisela,
I worked in theatre as a costume designer and I learned a lot about why things are done the way they are, in listening to directors, set builders, lighting people etc. Contrivances to make the scene more intense in some way are often used very effectively and do not appear to be what they are. I figured this out only after working behind the scenes in theatre for awhile. It got to be a bad thing for me to go to the movies because I spent the whole time analyzing why this or that, which seemed to have little to do with the action, actually happened, or why someone was wearing a particular costume, or how come they decided to shoot this scene in that light, etc. I am getting over it now, thank goodness because it was getting to be a job of work to go to the movies or the theatre or the ballet or anything else. In film and theatre, there is very little that is done just for its own sake. I would suggest to anyone, the next time you see an Egyptian film with dance, to look for the different ways in which belly dance is utilized to support the action, as opposed to being there for its own sake.
Regards,
A'isha
Amanda (was Aziyade)
Well-known member
This clip was great. That is one of my all-time favorite songs (although I prefer the Dean Martin version) and I thought their dance was cute -- but for the US, this is NOTHING new and this is what you would see students doing at dance competitions. It's a leeetle more "sexed up" than what I've seen at competitions, but in a really nice way. I don't see it as Burlesque either, but I liked their dance and LOVED Simon's reaction.
Yeah, we had far raunchier dancing on TV in England 25 years ago from the Hot Gossip dance troupe, the used to wear similar...er...underwear!This clip was great. That is one of my all-time favorite songs (although I prefer the Dean Martin version) and I thought their dance was cute -- but for the US, this is NOTHING new and this is what you would see students doing at dance competitions. It's a leeetle more "sexed up" than what I've seen at competitions, but in a really nice way. I don't see it as Burlesque either, but I liked their dance and LOVED Simon's reaction.
Oh, Cowell is *hilarious* and so predictable!
Aniseteph
New member
...and I thought their dance was cute -- but for the US, this is NOTHING new and this is what you would see students doing at dance competitions. It's a leeetle more "sexed up" than what I've seen at competitions, but in a really nice way. I don't see it as Burlesque either, but I liked their dance and LOVED Simon's reaction.
It's nothing new here either - it's the fact that they think they are burlesque performers that's bizarre.
Good GRIEF Suheir, that clip is so RUDE! :shok: That thing she did in the middle reminded me of a friends trick of folding a napkin into a shape that has no place on a respectable dinner table... :redface:
How did that get past the censors in 1959?!
Yes, it's quite a shocker! That film was made the same year that the first British strip club opened (by Paul Raymond, who died recently) - it's a teen sexploitation film that shows the horrors of teenage beatniks (Coffee bars! Juke boxes!) and the sleazy world of stripping.
If someone asks you why you shouldn't drape your veil over the head of a man in the audience, just show them that clip!
Amanda (was Aziyade)
Well-known member
OH
MY
GAWD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That's more "risque" than the stuff I have actually seen at strip clubs! (And yes, I go. I had a friend who danced at one.)
THAT's Burlesque??????????
I think I'll just drop dead now...
