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  1. #11
    V.I.P. janaki's Avatar
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    You all said it so so fine. I can't think of anything to add.

  2. #12
    V.I.P. lizaj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by janaki View Post
    You all said it so so fine. I can't think of anything to add.
    I can say one more thing ...we have one teacher locally who orders (or tries to) her students NOT to go to other teachers and who is quite prepared to criticise others.
    And woe-betied anyone who says anything against her ability .
    We also have folks who don't pass on information about events such as workshops and haflas to their classes. One in particular snatched a flyer off one of her students about another's events and ripped it up ceremoniously in fornt of the class.

  3. #13
    Member nicknack's Avatar
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    I can say one more thing ...we have one teacher locally who orders (or tries to) her students NOT to go to other teachers and who is quite prepared to criticise others.
    And woe-betied anyone who says anything against her ability .
    We also have folks who don't pass on information about events such as workshops and haflas to their classes. One in particular snatched a flyer off one of her students about another's events and ripped it up ceremoniously in fornt of the class.
    Makes me wonder what happened to the dance "community"

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aziyade View Post
    When you investigate some of these people you start to realize they actually have psychological and emotional issues -- or even outright mental illnesses.
    Sounds just like my old teacher based on all the dirty stuff she is been doing against my new teacher....

  5. #15
    Junior Member The Crone jewels.'s Avatar
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    I encourage dancers to learn from as many teachers as they can! We all have our own special gifts and different ways of learning. I have added quite a few moves to my solo work from various dancers............. I remember whose move it was and show others also, saying who I first saw doing a particular move......
    Maybe self confience is a problem with some people.......Shimmy shimmy!!!!

  6. #16
    V.I.P. Aziyade's Avatar
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    Oh wait -- I just started reading old emails. I think this is the post that A'isha was talking about:

    Our company has a problem of hiring teachers and then the teachers end up stealing clients that take private classes and undercut our prices. Even we make them sign a contract that they cannot collect e-mails or information about our client, it happens over and over.

    I presently have a teacher working for me and she is one of our main teachers and I have come to find out that she is giving private classes to some of our students at her house for a lower price and she has collected all the groups class that she has taught and sent them photos of the class which I was not aware untill NOW.

    I pyschically cannot do all the classes by myself and I have no choice to hire teachers but how do I avoid these problems or does anyone have any advice. I know the teachers see us making money but they don't see all the costs of advertising and my time on the phone, marketing, e-mails... which my time is not covered!!! I am extremely frustrated and feel I cannot trust any teacher to work for me!!


    If this IS the post, this is a different problem altogether. It's not about stealing students so much as undercutting your own employer.

    Right now Evansville Bellydance does not have its own studio. My partner pays for studio rent from a ballet school. When I teach there, she charges the students a set fee and pays me a set fee. I would be "stealing students" if I told all of the students I'm teaching "Hey, I'll give you classes for $1 less a session if you come study with me somewhere else."

    If this IS NOT the post A'isha was talking about, it's still an interesting situation -- what are the ethics involved here?

    I certainly would never do THIS to my partner, but when I do 6-week "Fitness in the Workplace" classes (which is what I'm mostly doing now) I will give students my business card and tell them if they want to continue to learn belly dance, they can contact me. I don't consider this to be unethical because we only offer the classes for one or two 6-week terms, and then employees learn salsa or jazzercise or whatever.

    ??

  7. #17
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    I always encourage my students to learn from more than one teacher; it's one way to advance! I also recall reading on a website somewhere that it was a good measure of a teacher's professionalism if she advised her students to also learn from others.

  8. #18
    V.I.P. Aisha Azar's Avatar
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    Default Stealing students, etc.

    Dear Aziyade,

    Quote Originally Posted by Aziyade View Post
    Oh wait -- I just started reading old emails. I think this is the post that A'isha was talking about:

    Our company has a problem of hiring teachers and then the teachers end up stealing clients that take private classes and undercut our prices. Even we make them sign a contract that they cannot collect e-mails or information about our client, it happens over and over.

    A'isha writes- This seems a bit like the studio owner is confusing her students with a commodity that does not have a mind of its own. At the same time, the stand-in instructors seem to have ethics issues with undercutting. I also would not have signed such a silly contract, because often student want to be on mailings lists and informed of things outside their own venue. I am one of those teachers who often ends up with other peoples' students in my classes, and it is not because I solicit them. It is because they come and sit in on a class, or see me dance someplace, or hear about me some how. I also have students who travel a good distance to study with me and some of them have regular teachers as well.

    I presently have a teacher working for me and she is one of our main teachers and I have come to find out that she is giving private classes to some of our students at her house for a lower price and she has collected all the groups class that she has taught and sent them photos of the class which I was not aware untill NOW.

    I pyschically cannot do all the classes by myself and I have no choice to hire teachers but how do I avoid these problems or does anyone have any advice. I know the teachers see us making money but they don't see all the costs of advertising and my time on the phone, marketing, e-mails... which my time is not covered!!! I am extremely frustrated and feel I cannot trust any teacher to work for me!!



    A'isha writes- This is not the post I was talking about, and this is a different problem, but it is also a problem that is easy to solve by renting space to that teacher instead of handing over classes to her and then getting upset if people want to study with her on their own time.

    If this IS the post, this is a different problem altogether. It's not about stealing students so much as undercutting your own employer.

    Right now Evansville Bellydance does not have its own studio. My partner pays for studio rent from a ballet school. When I teach there, she charges the students a set fee and pays me a set fee. I would be "stealing students" if I told all of the students I'm teaching "Hey, I'll give you classes for $1 less a session if you come study with me somewhere else."

    A'isha writes- I think undercutting is a different problem, too, and one that really annoys me. But, it is an issue where I understand that I have no control over what others charge. I only have control over my own behaviors. This is one of the reasons that I prefer to rent space from the studio where I teach as opposed to having the teacher advertise for students and do all that for me. In this way, she gets the price she asks for her space and I get to keep my profits above and beyond that as opposed to having to give her most of the proceeds when I am doing the work. I have turned down salaried jobs at one dance studio and two continuing education venues because they do not pay enough. But.... I have not led anyone to believe that I am working for them when I am really working for myself.

    If this IS NOT the post A'isha was talking about, it's still an interesting situation -- what are the ethics involved here?

    I certainly would never do THIS to my partner, but when I do 6-week "Fitness in the Workplace" classes (which is what I'm mostly doing now) I will give students my business card and tell them if they want to continue to learn belly dance, they can contact me. I don't consider this to be unethical because we only offer the classes for one or two 6-week terms, and then employees learn salsa or jazzercise or whatever.

    A'isha writes- In both cases, we do not know if the students approached the stand-in teacher about her classes or if she approached them. That would change the picture as well. The stand-in, in any case should have communicated with the owner and let her know what was going on and what she intended to do. Personally, IF I were working for someone else and students approached me about private lessons, I would go to the owner and say that I had been approached, that I would like to rent studio space to teach the lessons so that the owner would benefit, too. If the owner got upset that her students approached me about teaching a private or even a regular class, I would do it in another venue. Clients are not owned, they are there by choice.
    Regards,
    A'isha

    ??
    Last edited by Aisha Azar; 02-27-2008 at 02:49 PM.

  9. #19
    V.I.P. Aziyade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A'isha Azar View Post
    Personally, IF I were working for someone else and students approached me about private lessons, I would go to the owner and say that I had been approached, that I would like to rent studio space to teach the lessons so that the owner would benefit, too. If the owner got upset that her students approached me about teaching a private or even a regular class, I would do it in another venue.
    I agree -- I think this is the most ethical way to handle this.

  10. #20
    V.I.P. Azeeza's Avatar
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    This is a really BIG THORN in my side.

    Some teachers do not understand departure and it's not stealing students! Darn it!

    We leave for various reasons including not really meshing with the instructor, outgrowing a teacher, relocation, etc.

    I just get so angry when I hear that word, stealing. Please, those teachers are really insecure about themselves.

    Honestly!

    Azeeza

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