Relying on Mirrors

[Safran]

Dear Gang,
I have taught with and without mirrors and been a student with and without mirrors. I have found both jobs to be much easier with. When I teach workshops, I do everything I can to try to have the sponsor find us a locale with mirrors. I have had students come up to me after class and comment on how nice it was to have them, I also limit my workshop numbers to a manageable 30. It seems unfair to students to pack them into a place like sardines and then say, "Oh, learn this. with no feedback, no personal connection, no mirrors, no floor space, no acknowledgement of YOU as a single being and not a herd animal of some sort". I HATE THAT!!!!
Regards,
A'isha

Sooo want to rep you on that, but apparently your cup is already running over with it

As for mirrors, I like having mirrors to learn with at first. Especially, if there is a luxury to have mirrors on more than one side of the room. Of course, in order to really learn you also need your time facing the wall (or the "audience"). But, I personally do tend to rely on mirrors just as much as I rely on my teacher dancing in front of the class or the really good dancer who usually dances to the left of me.

 

[jenc]

I am sure this does not apply to any of you, but I have experienced a teacher using the mirror as a substitute for feedback. We were set to do moves from one end of room (mirror) to other (mirror) and as beginners we should have had guidance to interpret what we saw.
if only it had gone like this You need to improve X. Student tries it out and sees difference in mirror. Over the last few weeks I have learnt to evaluate what I see in a whole new way - and that has come from anaysis threough this forum - entirely without the use of mirrors.
anyone think i deserve some reputation
I wanted to put sticks tongue out as that's my fav but it's not there and I can't work out how to put smiley here and not at start

 

[Brea]

All I can say is that I will tell you how I feel when I have taught with them.

 

[Reen.Blom]

Hey jenc :tongue: : tongue :

 

[jenc]

:Thanks for the reputation guys I feel really one of you now
Jen:tongue:

 

[Jane]

I like mirrors, but I agree they can become addicting! Because most of the time dance is a visual experience for an audience, I think beginner dancers need to see themselves just like beginner singers have to listen to their own voice.

To break mirror addiction try facing away from the mirror and facing in other directions. If you normally dance N/S try E/W. Dance in a different floor spot. I notice sometimes when I know a choreography very well, I turn my brain off and follow another dancer on auto pilot. If she's not there in my site line, I have to think for myself and actively listen to the music. You can also close your eyes and concentrate on feeling the move within the body, then open them and see what it looks like in a mirror.

Given a choice, I'd choose no mirrors over a crappy floor anyday.

 

[da Sage]

I personally feel that mirrors (or video cameras) are very important to developing one's own style. I may be able to perfectly imitate my teacher (in my dreams!), but if her arm angle or degree of head tilt doesn't flatter me, that makes for ugly dancing on my part.

Frankly, I am often torn...should I follow my teacher exactly, or modify the movement so that the dance looks prettier on me? I am trying to discipline myself to alter all details so that they work for me (whenever possible). This process is why I completely understand that some troupes stick with one body type...it's so one choreography looks good on everyone, without the minor differences in movement that can distract the eye.

I think if you teach without mirrors, it's harder for beginning students to self-correct minor details. I am dancing more often without mirrors, now. When I do get in front of a mirror again, my movements aren't quite what I had expected. I feel I need to spend more time in front of a mirror to correct bad habits reinforced by practicing without a mirror.

I know Rachel Brice practiced with a video camera for some time, instead of a mirror. She got exact feedback, but delayed. Has anyone tried this over an extended period, and how did you feel about the process?

 

[Aisha Azar]

Video

Dear DaSage,
I know that for me, there is a sort of disconnect of some kind when I work with video as feedback, as in performance. It is like, since I am sitting there in the chair watching the video, I can not really be on the video at the same time,... or something. It's hard to explain, and I find myself emotionally removed from watching myself dance. Therefore, I don't get the whole picture, if that makes sense.
On the other hand, in videos where I am teaching a workshop or class, I still feel very connected to the process, and I have less of a tendency to try to analyze what I am doing with a jaundiced eye, as I do when I see myself dancing.
Regards,
A'isha

 

[Kashmir]

As I said, I see the value of mirrors for those above reasons, in a perfect world. Any advice on how to cut down on the distractedness? Some people, while watching themselves and doing fine, later on will be extremely confused because it seems they have learned with their eyes instead of their body...if that makes sense.

One thing I sometimes do is get the students to do a move with their eyes closed. I call out "stop" and they compare what they thought they were doing with what the mirror tells them. Most useful for hand and foot positions.

 

[Kashmir]

My teacher who teaches without mirrors is a very good dancer and wonderful teacher. I have never seen people in her class being "lost without a mirror". I was used to dance with a mirror before I started taking lessons with her and it took me half an hour to even notice there were no mirrors. Her style of teaching is very different from most teachers, that might make the difference?

So no drilling and polishing technique? Even with raw beginners, I'll put them in front of a mirror so they can see what their hips are doing. Many have little awareness of whether their hip is going up or out. If they look in the mirror they can get instant feedback.

But sometimes I need to be the mirror. I'll say you are doing xyz - they'll look and say "huh?" I'll say look at the mirror and they'll say I'm doing it right. I then try and reproduce what they were doing followed by what I want. Often that breaks through. So sometimes the eyes don't know what to look for.

With a choreography there also comes the time to reveal who hasn't learnt the steps but has been using the mirror to follow someone else. So it's backs to the mirror - also throws out other cues they won't have in a real performance.

 

[Kashmir]

I know that I can take a class in a room with 60 people in it, with no mirrors and still get something from that class. I can definitely state that the class would have been far superior for me if I could visually have checked my work against the instructor's input.

A related point - in a class that big even with mirrors you're unlikely to be able to see yourself (other than briefly, unless you're the one that walks in late with a noisy, shedding coin belt and stands front centre and won't move ) - but it menas you can see the back of the tutor which can be useful - especially in a crowded space.

 

[Aisha Azar]

Mirrors

A related point - in a class that big even with mirrors you're unlikely to be able to see yourself (other than briefly, unless you're the one that walks in late with a noisy, shedding coin belt and stands front centre and won't move ) - but it menas you can see the back of the tutor which can be useful - especially in a crowded space.

Dear Kashmir,
Yes, you can see he back of the instructor. How much more meaningful if you can also see the front of her/him in the mirror. In any case, I just about have had it with attending workshop of that ilk,no matter how famous the instructor.
Regards,
A'isha

 

[Missybell]

After reading this entire thread I feel pretty lucky, I can dance with or without a mirror confidently. How well I'm dancing I don't know for sure but having or not having cues is not an issue for me. Our classroom has a mirrored wall but I'm usually near the back as I'm one of the tallest, and we spend at least 50% of the time facing in different directions (away, perpendicular, or in a circle). I'm a musical person and can count beats and feel the music... I can remember choreogrphy pretty well and find people want to stand next to/behind me so I can cue them. I don't mind it but at the same time I kind of don't get how people can do something one way (lets say start on the right root for something, do a camel to the left) then you ask them to face a different direction and they're completely lost? I can also follow maps without turning them around... is it a spacial awareness thing maybe?

 

[Mosaic]

Dear Gang,
I agree with Sedonia all the way on this. Especially early on, it is really necessary for students to have mirrors. When I go out of town to teach workshops, I always request that the hosts do everything they can to assure we will be working in a venue with mirrors. (Sedonia has sponsored me twice and both time the workshop venue was perfect in every way!! So was everything else. AND, she makes this soup....)) It is both for the benefit of the students and for me, so that I can see the students all at once in a mirror, in some way that I can not when facing them. They need the visual to compliment the feeling the movement gives the body, and to see how they are moving the same or differently from the instructor.

Re the choreography issue- My company rehearses with the mirrors until we have the choreography down. Then we face a different direction and work without them until costume time. Then we face the mirrors again for a bit so they can have the satisfaction of seeing how all elements of the dance work together, music,movement, attitude and costuming to enhance the dance.
Regards,
A'isha

This is how my instructor works with us A'isha, We have become quite use to the mirrors and without. I know when I first started I hated the mirrors and would only look at the instructor, then I began to watch the instructor in the mirror and also directly, after that I was able to also watch myself. I can remember becoming confused a couple of times when we worked without the mirrors - we are all very comfortable with each other and just laugh if we mess up. After 3 years together we are getting pretty good at working with & without. I miss not having mirrors at home to check on myself when I practice at times though. I find shutting my eyses and 'feeling my body move and also feeling the music helps a lot, when I have my eyes closed I trace the movements in my head, I do this at night when I am settling to sleep as well, that is my "head" practice time
~Mosaic