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Thread: Um, what?!

  1. #11
    Senior Member Gia al Qamar's Avatar
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    One of my first teachers, I am sorry to say, used to burn FULL CDs compiling all her favorite songs (they were great!) and would list them by name, or by a description but sh'ed never give the artist's name or the name of the song so that others (she told me) wouldn't 'have' to run out and buy a whole CD of music...that they'd just rely on her for the 'best' music.
    OK.
    She didn't stay as my teacher for long...
    Gia

  2. #12
    V.I.P. Aisha Azar's Avatar
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    Default Music, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gia al Qamar View Post
    One of my first teachers, I am sorry to say, used to burn FULL CDs compiling all her favorite songs (they were great!) and would list them by name, or by a description but sh'ed never give the artist's name or the name of the song so that others (she told me) wouldn't 'have' to run out and buy a whole CD of music...that they'd just rely on her for the 'best' music.
    OK.
    She didn't stay as my teacher for long...

    Gia

    Dear Gia,
    Intellectual property rights laws make it illegal for us to use either film or music , even in class, without express permission from the owners of said music and film. ASCAP and BMI and film companies have very strict licensing rules, and often they are expensive as well. They also do not CARE whether or not you are helping them to make money. You can google copyright law and find out all about it. I went to an intellectual property seminar to find out exactly what the laws are and they are VERY clear that if you are making money, in any way then they want you to pay for it in advance. It does not matter it THEY stole the music from countries with which they have no copyright agreement, Legally WE still have to pay. There are even laws about how to handle it if you can not find the owners of the music. If you can find a piece of music that is not in public domain and has no copyright, you have the right to copyright it yourself, even if you had nothing to do with it being made. The laws are ridiculous and are set up to protect big companies.
    Regards,
    A'isha

  3. #13
    V.I.P. Aziyade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yshka View Post
    I've got a couple of cd's that have only "Bellydance" or "Mizmar Saidi" written on them, the rest being in Arabic.
    I've bought a lot of CDs online from Egypt and Turkey, and some Balkan and Serbian music, and a LOT of it ends up being an obviously copied version of what I can only assume is some pop CD floating around somewhere. I know the laws in Turkey are different from the laws here, and they don't see "intellectual property" as being the big hairy deal that American record companies do.

    Of course, it's not great for dancers to get one of these "homemade" CDs because we can't credit the original artist. I have a cd of GREAT drum solos, and I'd love to dance to some of them, but I don't know if it's Setrak, Hossam Ramzy, Karim Nagi, Amir Sofi -- or somebody's Uncle Billybob. !

    Miles Copeland, on Tribe, expounded at LENGTH on intellectual copyright and music licensing issues for dancers, specifically. If I can find the links, I'll post them. There are a lot of myths and misunderstandings running around in regards to music licensing, and it's not always clear-cut as to who must be paid, whose permissions you need, and which licensing agencies handle what music.


    Fortunately, in the modern era, we have the wonder of Amazon MP3 and iTunes. I can create an entire CD "playlist" of songs for my students, and they can download them legally for about half the cost of one regular CD. iTunes (I think) has an option where you can share your playlist with the world, so we could even start a resource thread of teachers' favorite playlists of Lebanese songs, or favorite songs for Tribal, or fave classical Egyptian songs. Ain't technology grand!

  4. #14
    V.I.P. Aisha Azar's Avatar
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    Default The Net and intellectual property

    There is a book that explains how and what companies are beginning to do to protect intellectual property on the net. It is:

    The Future of Ideas: The Fate of the Commons in a Connected World
    Author- Lawrence Lessig
    Copyright 2001
    ISBN- 0_375-50578-4
    The book goes into details about resources held in common and how the Net is right now pretty much a free resource, but also how this is getting really complicated and how companies want to have more financial control over it, etc. In the process of reading the book, there is much to be learned about intellectual property law. I am no expert on this, but Ne Kajira Janan is.
    Regards,
    A'isha

  5. #15
    Senior Member Gia al Qamar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A'isha Azar View Post
    Dear Gia,
    Intellectual property rights laws make it illegal for us to use either film or music , even in class, without express permission from the owners of said music and film. ASCAP and BMI and film companies have very strict licensing rules, and often they are expensive as well. They also do not CARE whether or not you are helping them to make money. You can google copyright law and find out all about it. I went to an intellectual property seminar to find out exactly what the laws are and they are VERY clear that if you are making money, in any way then they want you to pay for it in advance. It does not matter it THEY stole the music from countries with which they have no copyright agreement, Legally WE still have to pay. There are even laws about how to handle it if you can not find the owners of the music. If you can find a piece of music that is not in public domain and has no copyright, you have the right to copyright it yourself, even if you had nothing to do with it being made. The laws are ridiculous and are set up to protect big companies.
    Regards,
    A'isha


    A'isha,
    You're preaching to the choir here.
    My husband is a musician and I despise the notion of ANY artist being robbed.
    I make (your above) same speech on a regular basis to my students, fellow dancers and dance teachers.
    I should mention that this happened when I first began studying (many moons ago), I never bought her bootlegs and I was just sharing my like-experience with the op.
    Gia
    Last edited by Gia al Qamar; 03-05-2008 at 04:47 PM. Reason: schpelling

  6. #16
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    ...
    Last edited by Brea; 04-28-2009 at 01:30 PM.

  7. #17
    V.I.P. Aziyade's Avatar
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    Brea, here's the thread:
    Musical copyright - The Biz of Belly Dance - tribe.net

    I think this one addresses what you're asking about.

    Miles has gone into other, longer, more complicated answers to specific questions about licensing, but this one covers the basics.

    Every producer I've talked to and every attorney who weighs in on this subject has said you (or your dance school) DO need to purchase a SPECIAL license to use music for teaching a dance class. It depends on what you're teaching and how many students you have. Check ASCAP's website for pdfs on dance school licensing.

    BUT -- I teach 6-week "Fitness in the Workplace" classes on-site at various businesses. My area ASCAP rep told me (because of my situation) I would have to purchase a license for EACH location that I teach at. I think this is absolutely ridiculous and have NO intention of doing so (Most of the music I use isn't even in their catalog, and I'm fairly certain Ozel Turkbas and the Rhabani brothers aren't seeing a penny from my fees.) The license costs more than what I'm paid to DO these classes.

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    Last edited by Brea; 04-28-2009 at 01:30 PM.

  9. #19
    V.I.P. Aisha Azar's Avatar
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    Default Copyright, etc.

    Dear Forum members,
    I find that much as we do with the dance, we all eventually rely on our own sense of what is right and wrong to decide where WE personally draw the line. But it IS important to know what the rules are so that if it ever becomes an issue, we can at least know what we are up against. It seems like its okay to be an agency and break ethical and moral standards, but that individuals are much more at legal risk when we do it, when it comes to intellectual copyright laws.
    Regards,
    A'isha

  10. #20
    V.I.P. Aziyade's Avatar
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    There are artists like Suhaila, now Paul Dinletir, Dorku, and others who are going out of their way to produce independent music with VERY reasonable licensing fees. I was trying to switch to using their music exclusively in my fitness classes, and I probably should do this sooner rather than later.

    Another option for classes is using a live drummer (which we often had in modern dance class) but I think this limits the instructor to ONLY being able to show students how to dance to the rhythm. Any thoughts on this? Anybody use a drummer in class?

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