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Thread: Um, what?!

  1. #41
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    Last edited by Brea; 04-28-2009 at 01:55 PM.

  2. #42
    Junior Member Eve Gulnar's Avatar
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    Default A hostile enviroment for bellydance.

    As a belly dancer from Eman's I couldn't disagree with Breas comments more. The belly dance environment in Minnesota (especially in Duluth) has been becoming more competitive and much less civil as of late.
    Comments directed towards Eman which I have read so far have not only been malicious but flat out lies.
    I have never been forced to purchase anything that I did not want to buy (scarves for instance come in a number of price ranges-low to high end)
    The CD which is available in the class is $5 and I bought a copy so I can go home and practice the moves I've learned to the songs I'm used to hearing (some is choreographed, some is not but the emphasis IS on technique)
    and the "sugar and water" comment is rubbish..though, she does tell us to drink plenty of water as any sane teacher would.
    As I have read the rumors spread by Brea, I've noticed they have been 2nd or third hand accounts which are clearly NOT to be taken seriously.
    The comment about Eman putting her focus only on the skinny girls is a lie.
    As Eman told me, "You gotta have something to shimmy" The class I'm in has women of all different sizes and ages and as a "moderately" heavier gal I feel comfortable in the class.
    I am saddened to see that members of the BD community in the northland feel the need to attack established teachers in order to make themselves feel better about themselves. I saw that Breas is going to be starting a class in the area (I will NOT be attending it) and these comments seem to be very well timed to coencide with that.
    Truly sad.

  3. #43
    V.I.P. da Sage's Avatar
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    Hi again, Eve.

    I am so glad to hear that you haven't experienced anything negative in Eman's classes. However, a few people whom I personally know and trust, have told me about unhappy experiences they had with Eman.

    I also think Brea's posts are ill-timed...she recently changed her posts on this forum from describing her first teacher (aka, Eman) as an authentic ME dancer who supported dancers with "womanly" bodies, to talking about these very negative second-hand stories. This was a poor decision on Brea's part, because it makes her look opportunistic (even if the stories are true).

    I truly hope Eman continues to do right by you, and by her other current students. She has started many dancers on the road to a life-long love of bellydance. I only know the ones who have moved on to other teachers, though.

    I think every dancer should learn from more than one teacher. Luckily, Eman and Brea are not the only two teachers in your area, and you can easily take a drop-in class with any number of "neutral" teachers if you ever visit the Twin Cities. I encourage you to try a few classes with a different teacher sometime in the next year. I stayed with my primary teacher for about three years, but I also took (and take) from other teachers, so I can learn more.

    EDIT: Also, KuteNurse initially posted her reservations about Eman's teaching style when she was a baby-beginner dancer, well before Brea came to the forum. She had nothing to gain from posting her opinions or doubts - they were honest and non-political.
    Last edited by da Sage; 04-14-2008 at 11:35 PM.

  4. #44
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    Last edited by Brea; 05-15-2009 at 09:19 PM.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eve Gulnar View Post
    As a belly dancer from Eman's I couldn't disagree with Breas comments more. The belly dance environment in Minnesota (especially in Duluth) has been becoming more competitive and much less civil as of late.
    Comments directed towards Eman which I have read so far have not only been malicious but flat out lies.
    I have never been forced to purchase anything that I did not want to buy (scarves for instance come in a number of price ranges-low to high end)
    The CD which is available in the class is $5 and I bought a copy so I can go home and practice the moves I've learned to the songs I'm used to hearing (some is choreographed, some is not but the emphasis IS on technique)
    and the "sugar and water" comment is rubbish..though, she does tell us to drink plenty of water as any sane teacher would.
    As I have read the rumors spread by Brea, I've noticed they have been 2nd or third hand accounts which are clearly NOT to be taken seriously.
    The comment about Eman putting her focus only on the skinny girls is a lie.
    As Eman told me, "You gotta have something to shimmy" The class I'm in has women of all different sizes and ages and as a "moderately" heavier gal I feel comfortable in the class.
    I am saddened to see that members of the BD community in the northland feel the need to attack established teachers in order to make themselves feel better about themselves. I saw that Breas is going to be starting a class in the area (I will NOT be attending it) and these comments seem to be very well timed to coencide with that.
    Truly sad.

    Eve,
    I am genuinely sorry some of my posts have upset you so. EVERYONE has different reasons and different personalities and different experiences. Eman did not work for me and for over half the belly dancers in Duluth. I hear stories and I have seen first hand that at least 1-2 students/week leave Eman for a different teacher in town. I am not trying to be malicious, but truthful. I have nothing against Eman personally except the way she treats her students...Disrespectfully.

    My experiences with Eman were not positive. My first day in class, her "Partner" told me when I asked if she was performing in the show, that yes, lots of "Young" girls were performing in the show. The way she said it, said to me that I should not be allowed to perform because of my age. (That is age discrimination.)

    Also, my first day of class I was told if I purchased the dvd to learn basic moves...$20.00 which I paid in full, it would help me to learn the moves better. When I got the DVD home and watched it, the quality was so poor and it cut out repeatedly. (I might also add that my friend purchased the same dvd at the same price and the quality was so poor she did not get anything from it.) Then, I bought the music CD with the song to practice, which was a copied version from the original CD with two songs on it for $5.00. Then, she encouraged us to go down to her dance studio and take lessons there for another $30.00. Then, once she had you in her studio, she offered hip scarves costing twice the price they would online and her belly dancing shirts. Then, she sells tickets to her show for double the amount that the other instructors and troupe's do in town. $20.00/person. I never ONCE said Eman had forced me or anyone else to purchase her items. Once I added up the amounts...She made a bundle...That is the point I was making...She is in it for money making, while other instructors in the area are in it because they want to teach and they love the teaching.

    As for your comment that these are flat out lies, I have only told the truth of my experiences. My friend brought her 2 year old to class one time when she was in a jam...3 of us watched her throughout the class and she was an angel. She made one little sound during the last 2 minutes of class, her mother was ready to bring her into the hallway and leave, when Eman rudely said "Get that screaming baby out of here." At our last class, Eman said she wanted to "Critique" us. Here it was everyones first session and everyone voiced their opinion that they did not want to dance in front of everyone alone. She still made us get up and dance in groups. Let me tell you that there were young high school girls in the class who sat and laughed at everyone and Eman just put up with it. Also, Eman and her partner showed up at another dance troupe's performance locally. I sat 2 rows behind them. They made fun of dancers in the performance.

    As for your comment that Duluth's belly dance community is becoming less and less civil. I have NEVER experienced that. (Only in Eman's world have I experienced negativity.) As a matter of fact, I have attended Hafla's and danced with 2 other instructors besides Eman and I have never once had a bad experience with either instructors. One of those instructors happens to be Brea.

    I can clearly tell you are new to belly dancing with Eman. Most of the experiences with weight issues happen in her advanced groups. I have also listened to the stories before and after classes and at belly dancing functions. She indeed does tell her students to lose weight if they are a bit overweight. She instructed one student to lose weight and the student suffered insults from other students in a more advanced class. The student lost weight, then everyone started picking on her because her breasts were too small.

    I am not being malicious and making up stories because I am bored. I am sharing details what I experienced as a first time student and what other students have shared with me. I would suggest opening your eyes to some of the problems I have described for you. You will more than likely hear the stories if you open your ears. If and when you have run into trouble with Eman and you can't stand it anymore, I could set you in the right direction with 1 or 2 other great instructors who teach properly with the right posture and technique.

    As for Brea spreading rumors and lies, I know for a fact it is not true. She has only stated truthful facts that other dancers have told her. I have heard her say when a student in our class told her that Eman went on rampage on a telephone call. The student called to ask Eman if she sold hip scarfs and she was taking a class from Brea. Eman went off, saying that Brea stole her classes, what does Brea know about belly dancing and what does Brea wear to dance class? Unbelieveable!!! Brea, just sat and listened, then she said, "I first took Eman and I had good experiences." Brea also said that she loved taking Eman in those days, because she brought so much into the dancing." Those days are obviously past and Eman has evidentally turned into a different person.

    You can believe what you want, but do not accuse people of lying when you do not know the truth for yourself.

  6. #46
    Junior Member Amarise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenc View Post
    Has anyone else noticed that on IAMED dvds they give a credit to the catering, but not to the musicians and not to the music used on the performances at the end, even where they are obviously recorded. There is one sweet pop song on one of my dvds that I would love to know. I always thought it was illegal to use songs without credit.
    I just love their DVD's but I too wish that the song and artist was named for each number. I have been trying to find out what one of the songs is on one of my videos. Many of my other DVD's and videos do list the song and artist. I am not sure why they do not.

    Amarise

  7. #47
    Member Outi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amarise View Post
    I just love their DVD's but I too wish that the song and artist was named for each number. I have been trying to find out what one of the songs is on one of my videos. Many of my other DVD's and videos do list the song and artist. I am not sure why they do not.

    Amarise
    Then we should write to them ask them to do that. Aren't we the customers?

    It is a issue any way, as the music has copyright stuff and so. So at least they could (or any other dvd producer) to put information of the music.

  8. #48
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    [QUOTE=KuteNurse;70264]Eve,



    Also, my first day of class I was told if I purchased the dvd to learn basic moves...$20.00 which I paid in full, it would help me to learn the moves better. When I got the DVD home and watched it, the quality was so poor and it cut out repeatedly. (I might also add that my friend purchased the same dvd at the same price and the quality was so poor she did not get anything from it.) Then, I bought the music CD with the song to practice, which was a copied version from the original CD with two songs on it for $5.00. Then, she encouraged us to go down to her dance studio and take lessons there for another $30.00. Then, once she had you in her studio, she offered hip scarves costing twice the price they would online and her belly dancing shirts. Then, she sells tickets to her show for double the amount that the other instructors and troupe's do in town. $20.00/person. I never ONCE said Eman had forced me or anyone else to purchase her items. Once I added up the amounts...She made a bundle...That is the point I was making...

    She is in it for money making, while other instructors in the area are in it because they want to teach and they love the teaching.

    ok Kute Nurse... I have NO idea who EMAN is.... & have encountered several "dubious" teachers myself over the years.... but I do want to burst your bubble on the idea that "she is in it for money making, while other instructors in the area are in it because they want to teach & love teaching"
    HELLO...... many of us here on THIS FORUM do this (teach & perform) not only because we "want to teach & love teaching" but have made this our JOB... so tell me Kute nurse.... how much free medical care are you willing/able to provide and why are you not doing MORE than that for the "want & love of helping people" (as in, I, as a teacher, am WILLING to provide all my students for free.... however since I have children/ rent/food/etc expenses I am only ABLE to offer a few "scholarships").... oh yeah,,, & I also sell stuff (hip scarves/zils etc...) & you know what?? you COULD probably get it cheaper "online" as my WHOLESALE supplier has recently started selling "whlesale to the public" which (if you ask ANY business owner) is basically SCREWING me... as he offers YOU the product for near the same price he offers me... which means when I get a hip scarf for say $20... (then mark it up to $40 which in retail is now NOT a huge markup) he will sell it online for $24.99 (plus $4-$9 shipping)... however I am paying rent/insurance/utilities/employees/payroll costs/biz licenses/etc etc etc etc...not to mention "losses" from having some of my product stolen/damaged.. so in the end I am lucky to make maybe $1-2 on that hip scarf... (sheesh... now that I have acutally broken this down..... WHY am I doing this????)
    do not mean to "yell" at you,...
    but just REALLY want to set you straight that lots of us ARE doing it for the "money" such as it were... (& would YOU not WANT a dance teacher who was able to do this "full time" as opposed to one who did it "on the side"... though MANY good teachers HAVE to do this as a 2nd JOB...(because they cannot AFFORD to live by belly dance alone!) the key word in all my babble being JOB.... I want you to understand that this is our JOB... so do we not deserve to make money at our JOB just like you do???) & there is really NOT that much money to be had! (I know several dancers WAY more famous than me... w/ videos out & such who are not making much more than I).... the only dancers I know of who are actually making "decent" $$$ are the belly dance super stars.... & a few who are superb at marketing...
    blah,,, hopefully somewhere in there I have gotten my point across without being mean!!

  9. #49
    V.I.P. da Sage's Avatar
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    Hi belly_dancer,

    I see your point. I think it is the combination of the prices charged, along with the less-than-fulfilling experience Kute Nurse had in class, that is problematic.

    I'm a big believer in paying a fair price for a good product or service. I'm also a big fan of reasonable pricing (by the merchant/provider). At a certain point, if the value of the product doesn't match the price (usually because it falls short of the quality promised), people claim they were "ripped off", or taken advantage of.

    I pay professional prices for professional instruction, and I usually consider it money well spent. A bargain can be the same price as a total waste of money. I don't begrudge anyone a well-paying job, unless it's unfairly at someone else's expense.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by da Sage View Post
    Hi belly_dancer,

    I see your point. I think it is the combination of the prices charged, along with the less-than-fulfilling experience Kute Nurse had in class, that is problematic.

    I'm a big believer in paying a fair price for a good product or service. I'm also a big fan of reasonable pricing (by the merchant/provider). At a certain point, if the value of the product doesn't match the price (usually because it falls short of the quality promised), people claim they were "ripped off", or taken advantage of.

    I pay professional prices for professional instruction, and I usually consider it money well spent. A bargain can be the same price as a total waste of money. I don't begrudge anyone a well-paying job, unless it's unfairly at someone else's expense.
    thank you! I just get sick of people thinking bd teachers/performers are making a fortune.. when most of us have to have a day job just to pay for the costumes (not to mention rent/etc!!!)..
    also I have NEVER charged ANYONE to BE in a show... however, I have only hosted student nites/performances for my student troupes at no overhead places like my regular restaurants...
    I have always not had the money to risk losing (& truthfully the time to give away to producing) in producing a big show...

    now I am thinking of asking my classes if this is somethiing they may want to contribute to.... with the CHANCE of recouping some of the $$$
    eg: if 20 students contributed $100 each... =$2,000...
    & after expenses, we netted $400.... then they would each get $20 back...
    WHEEEE!!!!
    but all they will have lost is $80 EACH... (as opposed to me losing $1600)
    I will have lost about 80-100 HOURS of my life (not to mention a few nights sleep... & being a grouch to the family!) for the planning/rehearsing/readjustments/setting up/run thrus/props/dealing with the venue people/the stage people/the ticket people/the lighting people/the backstage issues/ the blah-de-blah-de-blah stuff of putting on an event... NOT to mention the average of an extra hour per dancer dealing w/ her individual issues.... so if I kept that $400 (equaling $4-$5 for that time) am I ripping these people off??...
    never mind... it is JUST tooo much work for ME!!!! (those of you who can & do do this.... wow!!!)... (BTW... I based the above work on one of my past jobs of co-ordinating fashion shows... where I got paid $20 an hour ...(& still had to find/coerce alot of volunteer help!) which was NOT enough!)...
    so again... I have NO idea about the teacher in question... but I think sometimes people tend to jump to conclusions as to what they are paying for (In my example, the $100 paid= $80 went to expenses $20 went to pay your mythical teacher $4-$5 dollars an hour for all that extra work.... so maybe she is doing it out of a "love for the dance"!!!)

    now of course ethical concerns, like talking S*#^ about dancers on stage, during a performance... ESPECIALLY if you are an instructor, well that is just WRONG!

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