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  1. #11
    V.I.P. Aisha Azar's Avatar
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    Default Sexuality, etc

    Dear Gang,
    The Arabs that I know refer to the dance as "sexy and flirty". I have no problem at all with people seeing the dance as sexual. I do not usually have to express how I THINK about this to my audience. I see nothing wrong with good, healthy sexuality.I am considered to be a fairly sexual dancer, and I have heard people refer to me as "sexy", but never "sleazy". I think westerners try too hard to "clean up" the image of belly dance. In many cases, our puritanical roots are showing when we feel the need to justify the dance, because even Muslims in general seem to think its pretty fun and they do not distinguish between sensual and sexual in the dance. ( They usually think that if you are out there flaunting it in such revealing clothing and those moves, you can't have THAT high a moral standing, anyway.) I think part of its appeal is its somewhat naughty reputation, and I have to say I like it that way. It adds a bit of spice to the mix, if you ask me. And, I think the way to clean up the reputation of belly dance is not to talk about it, but to put quality belly dance out there for people to see. Let them make up their own minds about its sexuality or sensuality, because yes, these two words mean different things to different people, but then, so does the dance itself.
    Regards,
    A'isha

  2. #12
    Senior Member Marya's Avatar
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    Default another ditto

    Quote Originally Posted by Shanazel View Post
    Well, Salome, you put my own feelings into words so beautifully that I will just say "ditto."
    Yes, Salome,

    You wrote it out clearly, succinctly, and directly, Thanks,

    Marya

  3. #13
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    I agree with both Aisha and Salome. All the way through the dance is sensual, but at certain point it can be sexual and that isn't really a bad thing. I think there is a difference between sexuality and sensuality though. Eg/ Flirting is sensual, if some one flirting comes across as too overtly sexual though then they aren't flirting anymore. Flirting is a balance.

    When people try to clean it up then it causes problems cause it's contradictory to do undulations, and chest shimmies, and say that it isn't sensual/sexual. We'd just look like we were in denial. It doesn't have to be sleazy though.

    For example, when me and my friends are all dancing in the club together, it can be really sensual, sexual, but because the intent behind us dancing is to have fun and enjoy ourselves then it isn't really sleazy and no one takes it as that.

    Thought I'd link this thread in to add to the discussion.

    http://forum.orientaldancer.net/othe...uggestive.html
    Last edited by Sara; 03-25-2008 at 02:09 PM. Reason: Thought I'd better put the link in after all lol

  4. #14
    V.I.P. Caroline_afifi's Avatar
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    Clean it up? sex and sexuality? sleaze?
    what does all this mean? who decides what is what? who decides its a step too far? who moans when it goes a step too far?
    I thought the dance expressed more than our just our desire to mate, are we saying it is a one trick pony now?
    questions questions...

  5. #15
    V.I.P. Aisha Azar's Avatar
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    Default Sexuality

    Quote Originally Posted by Caroline_afifi View Post
    Clean it up? sex and sexuality? sleaze?
    what does all this mean? who decides what is what? who decides its a step too far? who moans when it goes a step too far?
    I thought the dance expressed more than our just our desire to mate, are we saying it is a one trick pony now?
    questions questions...


    Dear Caroline,
    Do you really think of sexuality as a "one trick pony"? I think there is nothing more complex than our sexuality, and that each of us, in expressing it are expressing far more than just our "desire to mate". Sexuality is a thread in every single thing we do and is not something we can section our and put on display in and of itself, any more than we could hack out a section of our lung and call it our whole breathing system. Sexuality is in everything from the smells that attract us, to the appreciating the way another human being walks, to responding to the feel of a warm breeze on our faces, to the taste of warm, ripe tomato right off the vine, to the sound of the music that moves us in our very guts. This is about something more than "sensual", it is instead visceral response to life itself. It is more than sensual because it is too primal to be sensual. It is earthy and oozy. Sensuality is the tip of the iceberg. Mouna Said is not sensual; she is in your face sexy as she can be. So are Aida Nour and Randa Kemal. Fifi trips over the line and is often just plain raunchy. Now, who was the highest paid belly dancer ever????
    Regards,
    A'isha

  6. #16
    V.I.P. Caroline_afifi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A'isha Azar View Post
    Dear Caroline,
    Do you really think of sexuality as a "one trick pony"? I think there is nothing more complex than our sexuality, and that each of us, in expressing it are expressing far more than just our "desire to mate". Sexuality is a thread in every single thing we do and is not something we can section our and put on display in and of itself, any more than we could hack out a section of our lung and call it our whole breathing system. Sexuality is in everything from the smells that attract us, to the appreciating the way another human being walks, to responding to the feel of a warm breeze on our faces, to the taste of warm, ripe tomato right off the vine, to the sound of the music that moves us in our very guts. This is about something more than "sensual", it is instead visceral response to life itself. It is more than sensual because it is too primal to be sensual. It is earthy and oozy. Sensuality is the tip of the iceberg. Mouna Said is not sensual; she is in your face sexy as she can be. So are Aida Nour and Randa Kemal. Fifi trips over the line and is often just plain raunchy. Now, who was the highest paid belly dancer ever????
    Regards,
    A'isha
    I absolutely didnt say that is what i thought, I actually asked questions. Are we saying??
    I dont have a problem with sex or sensuality in the dance. I have actually said that. I want to know what various lines people draw between sleaze and sexy and that question has not actaully been answered.
    Sometimes these threads are hard to follow and jump around a bit and thoughts fly all over the place.
    They are merely theories to provide food for thought and thanks for adding yours.
    Caroline

  7. #17
    Moderator Zorba's Avatar
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    I agree with Salome also - but let's NOT get into a semantical argument - I *hate* semantical arguments!

  8. #18
    V.I.P. Caroline_afifi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zorba View Post
    I agree with Salome also - but let's NOT get into a semantical argument - I *hate* semantical arguments!
    OK Zorba, what shall we get into?
    I think we come on here for different reasons. I want to learn and exchange thoughts. We follow a conversion that captures our imagination and avoid others that just dont. Sah?

  9. #19
    Moderator Zorba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caroline_afifi View Post
    OK Zorba, what shall we get into?
    I think we come on here for different reasons. I want to learn and exchange thoughts. We follow a conversion that captures our imagination and avoid others that just dont. Sah?
    Oh dear, it seems I went and put my foot in my mouth (again)...

    I didn't mean it "that" way - I'm all for the free exchange of ideas also! I'm just meaning not to waste energy arguing semantics - state some definitions if we have to, and discuss it from that standpoint. "Sex/Sexuality" as someone stated can mean a lot of different things - so two people get into an argument because they have different definitions in mind, when they're actually saying the same thing (but don't realize it.)!

  10. #20
    Member Suhad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A'isha Azar View Post
    Dear Caroline,
    Do you really think of sexuality as a "one trick pony"? I think there is nothing more complex than our sexuality, and that each of us, in expressing it are expressing far more than just our "desire to mate". Sexuality is a thread in every single thing we do and is not something we can section our and put on display in and of itself, any more than we could hack out a section of our lung and call it our whole breathing system. Sexuality is in everything from the smells that attract us, to the appreciating the way another human being walks, to responding to the feel of a warm breeze on our faces, to the taste of warm, ripe tomato right off the vine, to the sound of the music that moves us in our very guts. This is about something more than "sensual", it is instead visceral response to life itself. It is more than sensual because it is too primal to be sensual. It is earthy and oozy. Sensuality is the tip of the iceberg. Mouna Said is not sensual; she is in your face sexy as she can be. So are Aida Nour and Randa Kemal. Fifi trips over the line and is often just plain raunchy. Now, who was the highest paid belly dancer ever????
    Regards,
    A'isha
    Thank you Aisha for both of your posts. That is what I was trying to say and naturally putting my foot in my mouth.

    Salome, no I don't mean that 'sex' is what the dance is about...I mean it in the way that Aisha has described. The separation between sex and sensual, as though one is 'good' and 'acceptable' in polite society and the other not, is relatively new in human history and as I was not brought up that way (but always knew others were brought up differently) it still to this day seems very odd to me. And I do sometimes have issues about how people will perceive me, my dance, and my body because of the dance--because some will misinterpret, regardless of what I or anyone else says or does. Then again, people will misinterpret in every day life as well, due to their own hangups rather than anything a given person says or does.
    Last edited by Suhad; 03-25-2008 at 05:02 PM.

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