Sex and Sensuality

[Tarik Sultan]

don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. bad experiences with choreo does not make choreo the bad guy. you can learn choreo at many levels, but then put your own stamp on things, adapt it or even just learn from it how another dancer approaches and structures their dance. all teaching methods are a means to an end, just depends how appropriate that end is to becoming a better dancer. you can also not teach choreo, and just say jiggle around a bit by yourselves. that does not make a good teacher either.

Exactly. I always encourage people who learn my choreographies to experiment and make adaptations to meet their circumstances. However, I do explain why I choose to do certian things at certain points in the music and explain other options that would also work. Above all I make it clear that the choreography is the way I feel the music, not the ONLY way or only steps that can be done to a particular musical passage.

 

[Aniseteph]

I was brought into a dance studio to teach because their previous teacher had left. ...
...You know what? THEY DIDN'T WANT ANY PART OF IT!

:shok: Talk about pearls before swine...

 

[Brea]

...

 

[Tarik Sultan]

Lest we get side tracked onto a separate issue, is this sexual or sensual?

So at the risk of opening a can of worms. I understand the perspective of sexuality in the dance, however, like others, I prefer to use the terms sensuality and passion to describe the qualities of our dance. For one thing, although sex and sexuality are not bad things, the fact of the matter is that a great deal of the GP are totally screwed up when it comes to sexuality and do not access it from a very healthy or life affirming place. Instead, it comes from a place of guilt, shame and fear. Therefore, since they are conflicted with their sexuality, they fear it and it manifests itself in dysfunctional ways devoid of the spirituality love sharing and joy the creator intended it to be. So for far too many people when you say SEX, their default setting automatically goes to that dark place.

Like others who mentioned it in this thread, i too have had my share of being denied work because people feared that my dance was going to be "sexual" and deemed it inappropriate, even though they had never actually seen me dance. The name Belly Dance and the stereotype were enough to discourage them.

I just got back from Trinidad. I did 5 nights of shows and a few workshops for Nalini Akal and her N9 Dance company. You would be surprised at the double standards she has to deal with IN THE LAND OF CARNIVAL NO LESS, due to people's perception of this dance as being "sexual", therefore in their minds lewd, shameful, dirty. Sexual is one of those loaded terms. Some of us see it in it's proper healthy context, but far too many people are in serious need of healing before they can see it from our perspective.

In regards to this dance being the ultimate expression of sexuality...well...I don't think so. I still say it's sensual. Can be sexy depending on who is doing it. However, there are dances in that region that are undeniably sexually explicit. THIS AIN'T ORIENTAL DANCE FOLKS:




Now That's sexual! Unfortunately it's also what a lot of the uninformed public assumes that we will do when they express fear in hiring us for performances. To the general public when you say a dance is SEXUAL this is what comes to mind. They don't understand it in terms of nuances and subtleties.

 

[Salome]

The first video looks a bit like cats wrestling under a blanket.

 

[Tarik Sultan]

The first video looks a bit like cats wrestling under a blanket.

.....Soooo......will you be adding anything new to your next drum solo?

 

[Shanazel]

In the study of primates that position is called "presenting" for very good reasons.

Oh, Lord, I can just imagine walking onto stage in central Wyoming and offering this particular terpsichorean delight.

 

[Marya]

Lest we get side tracked onto a separate issue, is this sexual or sensual?

Tarik,

Please tell us more about where these videos are from.

Marya

 

[Aisha Azar]

Dance

Dear Tarik,

I certainly am not sure where they have any connection to whether or not BELLY DANCE is sexual or sensual, not being belly dance in the least!!

Regards,
A'isha

 

[TribalDancer]

I think Tarik's point is that there are dances around the world that are definitely recognizably innately sexual. These being two examples from the countries from which bellydance originates.

And Tarik, your feelings and mine are as one:

Now That's sexual! Unfortunately it's also what a lot of the uninformed public assumes that we will do when they express fear in hiring us for performances. To the general public when you say a dance is SEXUAL this is what comes to mind. They don't understand it in terms of nuances and subtleties.

It doesn't matter what we think or believe or wish people understood about the word "sex" and "sexual". You can get as scholarly as you like about it. but the fact is the general public has some pretty clear ideas about what constitutes "sexual", and I don't want them associating that with bellydance.

 

[Aisha Azar]

Sexual

Dear Sharon,
The fact is that many people do associate belly dance with sexuality, and there is nothing wrong with that. Sleaze is what we do not want ourselves associated with, and there is a huge difference between the two concepts. And actually in countries of origin, there are many dancers who really ARE downright sleazx, just as there are here. Our only recourse is to dance with as much confidence in what we are doing as possible and do right by the dance whether we see it as sexual or sensual. Oddly enough, I rarely find myself in a position where I need to discuss this issue with the general public. I find it is more a dancer issue than an audience issue.
Regards,
A'isha

 

[Brea]

...

 

[Tarik Sultan]

Tarik,

Please tell us more about where these videos are from.

Marya

It's from the Gulf countries. It's called Malaya. From what I can gather, it's derived from a East African dance called Nikos done in Somalia and other countries in the area. Although, i must say, this is much more explicit than Nikos.

 

[Tarik Sultan]

Dear Tarik,

I certainly am not sure where they have any connection to whether or not BELLY DANCE is sexual or sensual, not being belly dance in the least!!

Regards,
A'isha

Dear A'isha: Please see Tribal Dancer's reply below your. She understands when I'm trying to make a point.

 

[Tarik Sultan]

I think Tarik's point is that there are dances around the world that are definitely recognizably innately sexual. These being two examples from the countries from which bellydance originates.

And Tarik, your feelings and mine are as one:

That is exactly the point I was trying to make. It's nice to know at least one person understands what I'm trying to say. The way I see it, if Raks Sharki was the ultimate expression of sexuality, to the point where women are having orgasms in public, (those must be nuclear strength shimmies to give women with clitarodectomies orgasms. I know women been dancing all their lives who have their bits in place and they never caught one dancing, let alone on stage), they would have been doing Sharki, not dry humping each other in parties.

A dancer may choose to express her sexuality while dancing Sharki, or make a sexual statement through it, but that is different than saying the dance is SEXUAL in nature. I maintain it is sensual. Malaya on the other hand and dances like it are SEXUAL. There is no way you can express anything else but sex when doing Malaya. There is no sweetness, or shyness there. There is only ONE message, and it is clear and direct, SEX! The same can't be said about Sharki.

It doesn't matter what we think or believe or wish people understood about the word "sex" and "sexual". You can get as scholarly as you like about it. but the fact is the general public has some pretty clear ideas about what constitutes "sexual", and I don't want them associating that with bellydance.

Exactly. Sex is not a bad thing. Sexuality is not a bad thing. But like I said, there are far too many people out there whose sexuality is clouded by deep seated issues of guilt and shame and therefore that energy becomes warped and expressed in dysfunctional ways. As rational responsible adults we have to be aware of this fact no matter how health our sexual attitudes are. It's just like a person who has grown up in a safe caring and trusting community must be aware of the fact that not all communities are like that, ESPECIALLY when they venture out into the world. No matter how good you have your head screwed on you still have to be aware of the fact that a whole lot of people have some very scary stuff going around in their heads. Therefore, we must choose our words carefully.

 

[Tarik Sultan]

Dear Sharon,
The fact is that many people do associate belly dance with sexuality, and there is nothing wrong with that. Sleaze is what we do not want ourselves associated with, and there is a huge difference between the two concepts. And actually in countries of origin, there are many dancers who really ARE downright sleazx, just as there are here. Our only recourse is to dance with as much confidence in what we are doing as possible and do right by the dance whether we see it as sexual or sensual. Oddly enough, I rarely find myself in a position where I need to discuss this issue with the general public. I find it is more a dancer issue than an audience issue.
Regards,
A'isha

And you have to realize that not all people are lucky enough to be in your situation or environment. This is a very big world and not all communities are the same. Perhaps you haven't had to deal with the negativity of misperceptions in this respect and if that is the case God bless you because it means that things are changing. However, there are many of us, myself included, who have to deal with this crap on a regular basis. We loose jobs on a regular basis, we get denied opportunities to participate in events on a regular basis, just because people have a negative expectation and hypocritical attitude about sex and sexuality.

When you say sex, it may mean all those positive things and good energy etc, but for far too many people when you say sex in their minds SEX=SLEAZE. That is why most of us choose a less loaded term like sensual to communicate that comfort and celebration of the body and it's movements and emotions, rather than raunch or sleaze.

 

[cathy]

I agree with Tarik and Tribaldancer. As far as the GP thinking of this dance as sexual, I get remarks from certain members of the GP (who have rarely or never seen this dance performed and never seen me perform) on a regular basis insinuating that the fact that I perform this dance is not quite in keeping with my professional career and it disturbs me. Like I must have to get drunk to perform. Like I should be ashamed to do it. I don't get drunk to dance and I'm not ashamed. I do set them straight about this, but I get tired of it. The way I dance is in perfectly good taste, and the dancers I enjoy watching also dance tastefully, as in not raunchy or sleazy.

Yes, it can be sexy and that can be really fun and great. And I would take it as a compliment if someone who actually saw me dance said it was sexy, though that is not my specific intent going out there. As I keep saying, deliberately putting on SEXY IS NOT REQUIRED. As A'isha has said everyone dances who they are. Some people are male, some are female, some have more sex appeal oozing out of them naturally, others have a more innocent charming sweetness. People vary in what emotions they feel, and also in what emotions they are able to access and express onstage. I want to see what's really there. I hate fake.

Sex does not equal sleaze necessarily, and love does not equal lust necessarily. Oriental dance can be sexy, and it can be sleazy.

For me it's about the music, the body and emotions expressing the music.

Cathy

 

[Brea]

...

 

[Aisha Azar]

Dance, etc.

Dear Brea and other members,
How often have you actually had anyone come up to you and say they think belly dance is sleazy or in some other way not acceptable? I have heard a lot of people comment that this is the attitude of the general public, but I have very rarely seen them demonstrate this attitude. Who seems to demonstrate this attitude as a more general thing are young men from Saudi Arabia and the Gulf, but then, not aways even them.
The American pubic, from what I have seen, seems to really like belly dancers. This is my own experience, anyway.
Regards,
A'isha

 

[Brea]

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