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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by adiemus View Post
    I paint and take photographs - oh and used to dance ballet, play classical piano, clarinet, write poetry and novels. All of these - oh! and bellydance also - communicate concepts and emotions. THAT is what these 'art'forms are supposed to do. Perhaps that is one of the main differences between 'art' and 'culture' - bellydance? well it has developed from something we do to have fun, into something we do to entertain and all the time communicating emotions. Can't think why it wouldn't receive arts funding, apart from it being a minority artform, oh and mainly women are involved in it...
    I'd guess that you are correct and that we are probably the wrong minority,also many people have an idea that to be art something should be serious or elitist.

  2. #32
    Moderator Farasha Hanem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gisela View Post
    I don't believe in labeling a whole genre as art or entertainment. IMO we have or learn some tools or different languages like dance, writing, music etc and it's what we choose to do with that that decides if it's art or not, and of course it varies from person to person. F ex I do ceramics. When I make a bowl which is meant to be used and has no other history in it other than it's a bowl and you use it for eating something, then I'm in NO WAY ever going to say that's art. The next second I can swith to making a sculpture in which I try to express something and create a mood in the viewer. The I have NO PROBLEM calling it art. Same person, same material, same process, same education, different purpose.

    It would be the same way of thinking in bellydance for me. I just have to translate it into ceramics to understand my own point haha

    I don't feel the snobbery. I think Art is the most wonderful thing ever and I am sad that some people are afraid of it.

    Awww, I wanted to give you rep, but it wouldn't let me.

  3. #33
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    I'd hate it if everything had to be 'serious' to get funding as 'art'!!!

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by adiemus View Post
    I'd hate it if everything had to be 'serious' to get funding as 'art'!!!
    That seems to be the way its going in the UK at the moment-unless your group is viewed as an oppressed minority ( funding was recently given to a group who wanted to promote giunea pigs as a healthy meat group) or challenging in some way,it does'nt count

  5. #35
    V.I.P. Caroline_afifi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pia View Post
    That seems to be the way its going in the UK at the moment-unless your group is viewed as an oppressed minority ( funding was recently given to a group who wanted to promote giunea pigs as a healthy meat group) or challenging in some way,it does'nt count
    WHAT??? I hope nothing like that ends up in our supermarkets.

    I think funding is not related to art that is serious as I have known other artistic ventures recievce funding and they have been very funny.

    You do have to be serious about what you do, and you do have to be able to discuss 'why' answer questions and know your stuff.
    This is not in relation to some kind of historical context for the dance, it is about what you are doing what your aims are, and what your piece project is about and how it fits in with their overall aims and objectives in the funding criteria.

    Defensive retorts simly wont do!

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caroline_afifi View Post
    .

    yes, many aspects of art challenge us.



    Well some definately feel that trying to make a living often affects artistic content as it is is perhaps driven by other needs etc. but people who become very successful at what they do eventually get to pick and choose what they partcipate in. It happens in all aspects of performance.

    Artists can often make a good living from what they do but its good business that makes them millionaires perhaps? I dont know.
    My fiance's mother is an artist. She says she always had to paint "what people like" because she HAD to sell her paintings to pay the bills, and often she would not even like what she made.... Recently she started a new phase in her painting, and she says that if she does not sell it, she can keep it in her own house, because she likes it. And now she is free to express herself and exeriment again....

    It is not that she didnt like her previous work, or that it was not art.... but it was sort of art with its soul gone- for the artist. Obviously the people that bought it, were inspired about it. But still... is it where aret became entertainment?

  7. #37
    Administrator Salome's Avatar
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    I am interested in the AM CAB situation and especially on hearing that it was a label given to a certain aspect of the dance in an attempt to put it down. If this was the case then why do people use it? Is it like gay people calling themself queer?
    Back in the day, restaurant/clubs where middle eastern food, dance and music were happening were, I hear, referred to by the musicians etc. as cabarets here in the states. And accurately so considering the definition for the word cabaret . Fast forward from the late 50's till late 60's where you start having more than one style of "belly dance". You've got Jamilia's Bal Anot, which took its own path and Americans starting to come back from journey's to Turkey and North Africa, bringing back traditional folk dances etc. People in the 'community' began using the term cabaret belly dance as a term to label that specific style, the American Cabaret or am cab style. The term itself is not offensive or negative or a put down. There are many factors as to why it has kind of fell out of circulation... that I'm too tired to ramble about right now and it would be rambling (it's 2 am, ackkk!)
    Last edited by Salome; 05-17-2008 at 09:48 AM.

  8. #38
    V.I.P. Caroline_afifi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salome View Post
    Back in the day, restaurant/clubs where middle eastern food, dance and music were happening were, I hear, referred to by the musicians etc. as cabarets here in the states. And accurately so considering the definition for the word cabaret . Fast forward from the late 50's till late 60's where you start having more than one style of "belly dance". You've got Jamilia's Bal Anot, which took its own path and Americans starting to come back from journey's to Turkey and North Africa, bringing back traditional folk dances etc. People in the 'community' began using the term cabaret belly dance as a term to label that specific style, the American Cabaret or am cab style. The term itself is not offensive or negative or a put down. There are many factors as to why it has kind of fell out of circulation... that I'm too tired to ramble about right now and it would be rambling (it's 2 am, ackkk!)
    Thanks for the explanation. When your not so tired I would love to hear more. I am looking at the global explotion of MED and how is it evolving at the moment. I know little about the States really.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reen.Blom View Post
    My fiance's mother is an artist. She says she always had to paint "what people like" because she HAD to sell her paintings to pay the bills, and often she would not even like what she made.... Recently she started a new phase in her painting, and she says that if she does not sell it, she can keep it in her own house, because she likes it. And now she is free to express herself and exeriment again....

    It is not that she didnt like her previous work, or that it was not art.... but it was sort of art with its soul gone- for the artist. Obviously the people that bought it, were inspired about it. But still... is it where aret became entertainment?
    Well it could be were the body becomes a tool to express what someone else wants or needs.
    Painting what some else wants to see is not communicating anything of your own, you are a tool.
    My experience of restaurant dancing was a bit like this. I was a tool and an object. I was there to put bums on seats and keep the punters happy.
    I did this for years and it funded my valuable training in this dance which enabled me to focus on what made me happy and think about why that often made me so miserable. I love doing weddings and parties because they book 'me' and my choice of dancing with my moves and do's and wont do's.
    But I found my voice in the theatre and I love to use dance to express a variety of issues and challenge as well as dance purely for the joy of it.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caroline_afifi View Post
    Well it could be were the body becomes a tool to express what someone else wants or needs.
    Painting what some else wants to see is not communicating anything of your own, you are a tool.
    My experience of restaurant dancing was a bit like this. I was a tool and an object. I was there to put bums on seats and keep the punters happy.
    I did this for years and it funded my valuable training in this dance which enabled me to focus on what made me happy and think about why that often made me so miserable. I love doing weddings and parties because they book 'me' and my choice of dancing with my moves and do's and wont do's.
    But I found my voice in the theatre and I love to use dance to express a variety of issues and challenge as well as dance purely for the joy of it.

    How about dance on stage? Not in a restaurant, where dance is just to complement the meal...lol How about dancing for yourself with no audience?

    I think if artist creates something to express her/himself, emotions, feelings, ideas- not nessesarily for anyone to see- and without being influenced by expectations of others- is it still entertainment? I think its art. Yep, when she/he creates something with other people in mind, does it become entertainment? Ideally is when the product of creation IS expression of the artist and at the same time embraced by the audience, without compromising. That must be a blessing.

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