Farasha Hanem
New member
Excellent!! Party On!!!
*goes all Bill & Ted and starts playing air zills*
*goes all Bill & Ted and starts playing air zills*
First Zills (And Problems That Come With)
- Thread starter BellydanceFTW
- Start date
jenc
New member
Saw a review of dvd where someone uses alternate hands - supposed to make you faster. The reason I'm interested is I'm left-handed so trying to copy a right-handed player, I end up alternating and getting confused anyway. Does anyone know which one this is and is it suitable for a beginner?
Q-Tip
New member
I'm also left-handed so copying any moves from a right-hander can be difficult for me as I'm not the most coordinated person.
I am left-handed also. Luckily my teacher gets around the handedness question by using the method of calling hands 1 for dominant or stronger hand and 2 for filler hand.
The first pattern she teaches is: 121 121 1212121
The accent is not on the first "1" but the last of the first two groups like this song:
over HILL
1 2 1
over DALE
1 2 1
we will CROSS the mighty TRAIL
1 2 1 2 1 2 1
Then another pattern is:
1 1 121 1 121
with the dominant hand keeping a steady rhythm.
I don't have any videos on this subject.
Good luck all!
The first pattern she teaches is: 121 121 1212121
The accent is not on the first "1" but the last of the first two groups like this song:
over HILL
1 2 1
over DALE
1 2 1
we will CROSS the mighty TRAIL
1 2 1 2 1 2 1
Then another pattern is:
1 1 121 1 121
with the dominant hand keeping a steady rhythm.
I don't have any videos on this subject.
Good luck all!
adiemus
New member
Cathy that's a great way to remember how to do the zills. I'm not sure it makes a lot of difference whether you lead with R or L, it's just about being consistent. As a constant air ziller ('cos otherwise the family threaten to make me swallow them!!) I love my zills!!! sooooo much fun. I also use Drills, Drills, Drills zill drills (heh! ever tried to type that or even to say it?!!) but only when the family are out.
I think learning zills really helps with learning the rhythm and keeping time even when you're dancing without zills. And it certainly helps learn the different rhythms. I've also got Solace's Rhythm CD, which doesn't always call the rhythms exactly the same as what I've learned in class, so I wonder if someone who is more knowledgeable could check whether they are accurate names for each rhythm?
**runs off to dance air zill to annoy the family **
I think learning zills really helps with learning the rhythm and keeping time even when you're dancing without zills. And it certainly helps learn the different rhythms. I've also got Solace's Rhythm CD, which doesn't always call the rhythms exactly the same as what I've learned in class, so I wonder if someone who is more knowledgeable could check whether they are accurate names for each rhythm?
**runs off to dance air zill to annoy the family **
Farasha Hanem
New member
Heeey, I'm glad I'm not the only one who annoys her family with her zill playing!
Air zilling is still a bit difficult for me, but I'm still working on it. I have 4 or 5 books on bellydance, but only a couple of them have any advice on zilling. The one that I just now looked up is from "Bellydance" by Keti Sharif. The author only gives three zill drills, and I'm changing them to the 1-2 method instead of the R-L method the book uses:
Gallop - The author suggests using this rhythm for triple steps, hip drops or hip circles, or for fast-travelling "camel walk":
121 121 121 121
Baladi style - For slow step point, or sideways-travelling figure eight:
1 1 121 1 121
Repetitive - For fast hip lifts, or Egyptian walk:
121212121212
The author also gives suggestions for zilling:
Less is more
Plan when to play zills in your routine
Do not play during taqsim sections
Learn at least three different rhythms
Change tempo accordingly to music
Do not play during shimmying
Play during fairly easy steps
Be expressive and vocal while zilling :dance:
Be graceful with your arms; keep them lifted, and change positions smoothly
"When in doubt, leave zilling out!"
Hope that's helpful.
Last edited:
LeylaLanty
New member
Just got back from Cairo where I taught a finger cymbal class at Ahlan Wa Sahlan in which I teach how to play and dance at the same time without losing either the dance or the music and how to practice. I teach using "1" for the dominant hand (right if you're right handed, left if you're left handed, e.g. 121 121 121 or 121 121 1212121, etc.
I've observed many zill/sagat players in bands in Egypt and notice that almost all of them are consistent in using their dominant hand for the downbeat. IOW, they do not switch hands as in RLR LRL RLR LRL.
If you're left handed and have a right handed instructor try not to listen to "right left right" if she/he uses those words, try to watch your instructor's hands while facing her/him so you can play a "mirror image" to her/his hands. If that's not possible maybe you can tactfully ask for a "121" substitution for "right left right"? or maybe schedule a private class or two where you can face her/him while practicing zills.
Oh, and if your family objects to your playing them at home, invest in a pair of infant socks (thick ones) and put one on each thumb zill, covering both your thumb and the zill. No clangs, only soft thumps!
I teach using "1" for the dominant hand (right if you're right handed, left if you're left handed, e.g. 121 121 121 or 121 121 1212121, etc. I've observed many zill/sagat players in bands in Egypt and notice that almost all of them are consistent in using their dominant hand for the downbeat. IOW, they do not switch hands as in RLR LRL RLR LRL.
If you're left handed and have a right handed instructor try not to listen to "right left right" if she/he uses those words, try to watch your instructor's hands while facing her/him so you can play a "mirror image" to her/his hands. If that's not possible maybe you can tactfully ask for a "121" substitution for "right left right"? or maybe schedule a private class or two where you can face her/him while practicing zills.
Oh, and if your family objects to your playing them at home, invest in a pair of infant socks (thick ones) and put one on each thumb zill, covering both your thumb and the zill. No clangs, only soft thumps!
Amanda (was Aziyade)
Well-known member
Z-Helene's video threw me over the edge when it came to cymbal obsession.
I use Jamila Salimpour's Cd, which is basically what Cathy et al described -- although she uses the numbers 12345678 and the odd numbers are your dominant hand with the even numbers being the non-dominant hand.
Course, Suhaila makes us learn and drill every pattern using both dominant leading AND non-dominant leading, which is what Z-Helen's video also goes over.
Z-Helene gets something like 6 sounds out of hers. I've been working with this video for YEARS and I still have things to practice. The only drawback is that she teaches cymbal playing sitting down, which is not as effective as walking with them or doing basic steps with them.
In my advanced classes, we used to drill all the traveling movements with different cymbal patterns over them. I'm resurrecting this because I think it's GREAT practice. And I had the students listen to their fave percussion cds and pick out the different cymbal patterns in the songs. They would often "discover" new patterns this way, or new accents to old rhythms
I use Jamila Salimpour's Cd, which is basically what Cathy et al described -- although she uses the numbers 12345678 and the odd numbers are your dominant hand with the even numbers being the non-dominant hand.
Course, Suhaila makes us learn and drill every pattern using both dominant leading AND non-dominant leading, which is what Z-Helen's video also goes over.
Z-Helene gets something like 6 sounds out of hers. I've been working with this video for YEARS and I still have things to practice. The only drawback is that she teaches cymbal playing sitting down, which is not as effective as walking with them or doing basic steps with them.
In my advanced classes, we used to drill all the traveling movements with different cymbal patterns over them. I'm resurrecting this because I think it's GREAT practice. And I had the students listen to their fave percussion cds and pick out the different cymbal patterns in the songs. They would often "discover" new patterns this way, or new accents to old rhythms
Zorba
"The Veiled Male"
Everybody needs to do what works for them - I don't have a "dominant" hand when it comes to Zilling which was my instinctive approach and coincidentally is that of the gal who taught me pretty much everything I know about Zilling: i.e. RLR LRL RLR...
She says that you can play much faster if you do it this way - which makes sense. She certainly can play circles around just about anyone!
All this said, other teachers such as Aziza Sai'id, stick strictly with the dominant hand technique because they like the option of using different Zills on each hand - so there's certainly room for both schools of thought.
BUT - I can switch to "dominant hand" style playing if I want to at any time - it really isn't that hard to do. Therefore I still tend to lean towards the non-"dominant hand" or "alternating hand" style.
Your Mileage May Vary!
She says that you can play much faster if you do it this way - which makes sense. She certainly can play circles around just about anyone!
All this said, other teachers such as Aziza Sai'id, stick strictly with the dominant hand technique because they like the option of using different Zills on each hand - so there's certainly room for both schools of thought.
BUT - I can switch to "dominant hand" style playing if I want to at any time - it really isn't that hard to do. Therefore I still tend to lean towards the non-"dominant hand" or "alternating hand" style.
Your Mileage May Vary!
Amanda (was Aziyade)
Well-known member
I think this just happens to people not used to playing cymbals. You might try Zorba's way-- we call those "Alternating lead triples" -- 123 456 -- RLR LRL RLR LRL.
Mufflers:
Shira has a pattern for a crocheted zill muffler on her site.
You can also use pantyhose, or a piece of scotch tape around the edge of the cymbals.
One of my old groupmates made "fake" cymbals out of plastic plates. She could practice better than air-zilling, but they didn't really make noise. The problem with this is that there is no weight to the "cymbal" and when you take them off and put real cymbals on, it's like learning all over again.
nightdancer
New member
I am so glad to have read this. We did zills yesterday and I was so frustrated, I was almost in tears. First of all, my zills suck. Second, I cant hear the rhythms for anything. My teacher said if you cant hear it, or lose it, to stop and let your feet or your hip pick it up, then go back. "The hip hears when the ear cannot".
I need new zills. I think perhaps if I had a different pair, I'd not despise zills so much.
**edit** trying to buys zills. Both Saroyan and Turquoise checkout processes are being harder than it should be. Making me stabby!
I need new zills. I think perhaps if I had a different pair, I'd not despise zills so much.
**edit** trying to buys zills. Both Saroyan and Turquoise checkout processes are being harder than it should be. Making me stabby!
Last edited:
Reen.Blom
New member
what zills you got that you are not happy with? And which ones are you getting?
Zorba
"The Veiled Male"
I was in a class once, where a gal was so frustrated that she suddenly threw her zills across the room!
Hang in there - you *can* do this! It just isn't easy...
lizaj
New member
To throw a brass spanner in the works. Is there anyone else who like me doesn't actually like listening to the dancer who clatters away to "canned music" with her zills?
I have no problem with a dancer playing them skilfully along with an Egyptian band..this seems somehow correct..They are musical instruments and she is one of the musicians as well as dancing.
But oh my... if I listen and watch the dancer who bangs away at her favourite pattern and drowns out the music she is dancing to, I get rather .......
At least few European dancers seem to do it!But I recently watched a US dancer and just wanted to see if I could see her "connection to the music" ..as you do! But couldn't hear the pieces through the godawful racket of her zills.
I have no problem with a dancer playing them skilfully along with an Egyptian band..this seems somehow correct..They are musical instruments and she is one of the musicians as well as dancing.
But oh my... if I listen and watch the dancer who bangs away at her favourite pattern and drowns out the music she is dancing to, I get rather .......
At least few European dancers seem to do it!But I recently watched a US dancer and just wanted to see if I could see her "connection to the music" ..as you do! But couldn't hear the pieces through the godawful racket of her zills.