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  1. #11
    V.I.P. jenc's Avatar
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    If you mean straight leg shimmy - I think this is what is giving me probs as pushing the knee back it is so easy to go too far back with a knee that is damaged anyway.
    But thanks

  2. #12
    V.I.P. Aziyade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenc View Post
    If you mean straight leg shimmy - I think this is what is giving me probs as pushing the knee back it is so easy to go too far back with a knee that is damaged anyway.
    But thanks
    K, keep the knees BENT when you do this shimmy. Just slightly, but enough that you won't want to slam the knee backward. You MAY have to relearn this shimmy and practice it slowly until you can get to the point where you're not slamming the knee back.

    The "Twist" is a fundamental movement in Egyptian dance, and it's often one of the first movements a real Arab will show you. But do like Kharis said -- twist from the waistline (the obliques). If you twist this way, you should see NO MOVEMENT at all in the knee. A lot of people twist and manage to torque their knees because they allow the knee joint to absorb the twist. Don't. Keep it totally in the waistline.

    Same thing goes for Figure 8s or any move where the hips are not on a direct plane with the knees and feet. Make sure the waist muscles absorb the twist. You should see hardly any movement at all in the knees when you do figure 8s or circles or anything.

    Jen -- I don't FULLY understand the anatomy involved, but I'm told a lot of knee problems and pain are related to tightness in the ilio-tibial (IT) band (the muscles on the side of your thigh.) I know extensive glute work can lead to tightness there, and a lot of ballet instructors will now tell you to work with a foam roller to get a kind of deep-muscle massage of the IT band. You might try that. It hurts for the first few times you do it, but after that it feels remarkably good.

  3. #13
    V.I.P. Reen.Blom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aziyade View Post
    Jen -- I don't FULLY understand the anatomy involved, but I'm told a lot of knee problems and pain are related to tightness in the ilio-tibial (IT) band (the muscles on the side of your thigh.) I know extensive glute work can lead to tightness there, and a lot of ballet instructors will now tell you to work with a foam roller to get a kind of deep-muscle massage of the IT band. You might try that. It hurts for the first few times you do it, but after that it feels remarkably good.
    Does that mean that glute driven shimmies a-la Suhaila are out? Does that mean they have bigger impact on the knees than Egyptian shimmy?

  4. #14
    V.I.P. Aziyade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reen.Blom View Post
    Does that mean that glute driven shimmies a-la Suhaila are out? Does that mean they have bigger impact on the knees than Egyptian shimmy?
    Well, to clarify -- Suhaila always says she doesn't shimmy. She vibrates. I think she uses two different words because she views these are two different things.

    No, glute-driven hipwork or vibrations aren't out at all -- but when we do a lot of glute work, we're strongly encouraged to massage the IT band, and to use the foam roller thing on the area of the IT band. (I was told the same thing by my trainer last year, but I ignored her because I didn't want to mess with massages and the roller, cuz it's not comfortable.)

    Suhaila believes that knee-driven shimmies are not good for you. I do not share this belief, ASSUMING that you're doing the shimmy in proper form, and not slamming the knees back, and not hyperextending.

    Now, it's not like I can actually DO the glute-driven vibration for any length of time, and I can barely get it to begin with, but this particular movement doesn't seem to have any noticeable affect on the knee JOINT at all. (The part that actually vibrates is the gluteus medias, which is kind of the upper part of the glute.)

    But, you know the foot bone's connected to the whatever bone, and I THINK the way this works is that the glute muscle (gluteus maximus) is somehow connected to the IT band, and that's all working with the muscles around the knees, and so if you overwork one, you risk overworking or hurting the others, and that's why you're supposed to roll on the foam roller. I REALLY should have listened to my trainer, and I didn't, so I may be getting a lot of this wrong, but what I got out of out sessions was this:

    Knee pain -- could be from tight IT band -- (multiple causes of tight IT band) -- fixed by rolling on the foam roller.

    My last ballet teacher always swore by "rolling" only he used tennis balls. He was crazy that way.

    OTOH:

    My partner in dance has always done the "american shimmy" or whatever, where you shimmy by using your obliques and waist muscles. She can "shimmy" while sitting in a chair, just by alternately pulling up her side muscles. She's never complained of knee pain and thinks THIS shimmy is the safest.

    your mileage may vary...

  5. #15
    V.I.P. Reen.Blom's Avatar
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    Here found the muscule pix:
    HIP AND THIGH - myDr.com.au

    So IT band is not muscule... LOL

    Eeeek I do have trouble idolating the glutes...

  6. #16
    V.I.P. jenc's Avatar
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    I was thinking I would develop the american shimmy as I have worked the waist muscles.

    I think that my particular knee probs are more likely to be the result of not enough exercise - not too much of any kind!!!
    About 4 years ago, my right knee started to dislocate sideways. Whe I tried to get out of car, my thighs moved sideways and my foot remained stationary!! OUCH!! had to stand up and kick foot out hard to get leg back. Eventually I lost some weight and I don't remember how but it went away.
    Apart from doing straight leg shimmy drill without warming up - the other probs i have with that leg are:
    1 Hip is hypermobile and turns out unless I control it
    2 Foot pronates (rolls inwards and flattens) This is acerbated by
    3 Weakness in ankle due to break in 2005.
    This means that unless vI concentrate very hard (or keep muscles very well-exercised) the weight does not travel down my leg in a straight line. I need to find some exercises to strengthen leg to straighten it up. Otherwise any time I bend my leg, or shift my weight, my knee is twisted in one plane or another and therefore uneven stress causes pain.
    I know, I should see a physio and I should go private to avoid 6 month NHS waiting list!!

  7. #17
    V.I.P. Aziyade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reen.Blom View Post
    Here found the muscule pix:
    HIP AND THIGH - myDr.com.au

    So IT band is not muscule... LOL

    Eeeek I do have trouble idolating the glutes...

    Thanks - I am probably so BADLY misquoting all this. Thing is, I HAVE the ACE anatomy book, and I'm supposed to be studying for this, but I just haven't. (Shame)

    I only half-listened to my trainer because at the time I just wanted her to tell me what to do and then go away. She was kind of humorless. I didn't care to hear reasons or philosophies. I always figured I'd learn that later. mistake.

  8. #18
    V.I.P. Aziyade's Avatar
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    You poor thing!!

    Yeah, strength in one area and weakness in another always can contribute to injuries. In ballet, we were supposed to ALWAYS work out and work certain groups of muscles to balance out the ones we tended to overuse. (Of course that never happened, and as a result we ended up with weaknesses and injuries.)

    Get the book DANCING LONGER DANCING STRONGER by Watkins and Clarkson. It's a MUST. It will give you exercises to do to strengthen your weak areas, and has a series of questions to help you figure out what exercises you need to do.


    Quote Originally Posted by jenc View Post
    I was thinking I would develop the american shimmy as I have worked the waist muscles.

    I think that my particular knee probs are more likely to be the result of not enough exercise - not too much of any kind!!!
    About 4 years ago, my right knee started to dislocate sideways. Whe I tried to get out of car, my thighs moved sideways and my foot remained stationary!! OUCH!! had to stand up and kick foot out hard to get leg back. Eventually I lost some weight and I don't remember how but it went away.
    Apart from doing straight leg shimmy drill without warming up - the other probs i have with that leg are:
    1 Hip is hypermobile and turns out unless I control it
    2 Foot pronates (rolls inwards and flattens) This is acerbated by
    3 Weakness in ankle due to break in 2005.
    This means that unless vI concentrate very hard (or keep muscles very well-exercised) the weight does not travel down my leg in a straight line. I need to find some exercises to strengthen leg to straighten it up. Otherwise any time I bend my leg, or shift my weight, my knee is twisted in one plane or another and therefore uneven stress causes pain.
    I know, I should see a physio and I should go private to avoid 6 month NHS waiting list!!

  9. #19
    V.I.P. Reen.Blom's Avatar
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    Anyone knows of youTube clip where I can see "American shimmy" sounds interesting!

  10. #20
    V.I.P. jenc's Avatar
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    YouTube - Cassiopeia Belly Dance How To - Rocker Shimmy



    You can see here that this shimmy isn't knee driven. Checkout the rest of of Cassioeia's stuff on YouTube, including 4 more demos of this shimmy with variations. She's the only YouTube instructor who's always worth watching and the only one that I would pay to get a dvd of her YiouTube stuff

    Wher has the YouTube icon gone? I had to insert that vid by hand (writing in code)

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