ME IS ANGRY ANGRY! Belly dancing is NO lap dancing!!!

[curl1982]

Right, I am mad today. Mad, mad, very mad.

We were informed by our belly dancing teacher that she will not be able to carry on with her class... Why? Because the class is held in a local church hall and she has been hiring the hall for a while now. But apparently someone form the church (some old, fridgid cow who calles herself the Church Co-Ordinator) walked into one of her classes and realised that, OH MY GOD, the hall is being used to BELLY DANCE!!! What a shameful, vulgar, exhibitionist thing to do!

My teacher received a letter later stating 'Due to the nature of your Dance Class, we would be uncomfortable renewing the booking'.

Now how sad is that? Giving notice to an enthusiastic, innocent, ambitious group of women (all sizes, mixed religions, all ages) because the dance is seen as too sexual maybe?
I personally asked myself 'Do we live in medieval?' This is a world where you only have to switch on your TV or computer and you'll find nudity, sex and whatever splattered all over the place. On screen, billboards, charts song lyrics, magazines etc etc.
Are they putting belly dancing on the same level? Did this old trout (sorry my language) have a problem with my instructors costume bra and her lovely womanly figure on display (in a very classy & traditional way).

Also, no men are allowed to our classes, so WHAT is the problem? :think:

There is another instructor in my area who is hiring church halls but she constantly has to lie to them about what kind of dance is being danced. Instructors here hire church halls cos they're cheap and offer enough space, wooden floors and (if your lucky) sometimes 3 slim mirrors.

Can you leave your views and maybe reply with suggestions where classes could be held/Where our classes are?? I live in Dorset, UK (Bournemouth / Poole area) but we only have 2 teachers/venues as far as I know.

Thank you and sorry if I got carried away a bit...

 

[sedoniaraqs]

Unfortunate, but coming from an agency of organized religion, it doesn't surprise me at all.

If I were inclined at all to believe in supernatural forces, I might wonder if it was karmic justice for her discriminating against male students. You know, one irrational action deserves another. Perhaps your teacher and even you or your classmates never stopped to think how wrong that was; maybe now is a good time to contemplate it, since you'll be starting over in other ways as well. Clean slate and all that.

 

[curl1982]

Male students are very welcome in our class (not that we have any though), just not any bloke who just wants to sit and watch. Just like some women prefer to go to female only gyms.

 

[khanjar]

Males sitting and watching a class, I should think not, and for that matter females too. Classes are for people who wish to learn something, not entertainment for voyeurs.

So far, I have only seen one advertisement for a class where it stated; ' Everyone welcome,(men too!) '.

As to small minded individuals often involved with churches, well all I can say, is with rapidly falling attendances at churches in Britain, and them moaning about spiralling maintenance costs, perhaps their end will come from within, their small minded attitudes will be their end.

 

[Aniseteph]

Sigh.

I dunno, if it's their hall they are entitled to object, so long as they have an accurate picture of what they are objecting to. Some people just don't think it is a nice way to move your body.

Have you just been banned on the basis of one person's interpretation of what she saw/thinks about belly dance, or have you had a chance to put your case to anyone else involved in the decision, and get across what the class and the students are really like?

Are there any community halls? council-owned venues? Schools? or other churches with different attitudes?

 

[Arabella]

Reminds me of the time not long ago, when my dancing partner and I were to perform in a nursing and retirement home. The residents were in the church auditorium, waiting for us to go on. Meanwhile, we were getting dressed in a chapel room the recreational director told us to go in, which was in the room right next to the auditorium. There we were almost dressed and set to go on when two women knock on the door, I open it and one starts hollering, OMGGGGG! I can't believe what's going on in here! You're defiling the chapel! This is a sacred place, and here you are half dressed with flesh showing all over the place, this is a sin you're committing! I'm gonna complain about this!" I tried to shut the door on her, but she had her foot in it, and it wouldn't close, and she wouldnt' stop ranting and raving. I told her we were allowed to be there, she started ranting and raving even louder. Unbelievable incident, strange woman indeed.

 

[Farasha Hanem]

*lets out a long, tired sigh* I probably don't have anything to say to help you, curl1982, because I feel caught on both sides of the issue. On the one hand, yes, I am a Christian, and personally, I feel that a place of worship should separate itself from the secular. But on the other hand, as a bellydance student, I bristle when "holier-than-thou" ignoramouses (spelling?) who have no understanding (and no intention of understanding) that bellydance is a folk dance, and a legitimate art, start spouting off about how bellydance is "sinful." I'm not saying I'm one of those who "bellydance for Jay-sus;" I merely keep both aspects of my life separate. I see nothing wrong in what I am doing, yet prejudice, misunderstanding, and misinformation about bellydance is prevalent among those of faith.

As I said, I feel very caught in the middle of both facets of my life. Often, I wonder if I'm being hypocritical on both sides of the issue. I don't feel guilty about bellydance, because my motives are innocent: I love the dance. I love it as an exercise, and as a way of expressing myself emotionally and artistically. Bellydance deeply touches the feminine in me. I love the music, the people, and the culture. But on the other hand, I do feel that bellydance classes would be better off being held in a place that's not held as sacred. I do understand that it's not the building that is the church---it's the people who worship there, but I would not be comfortable taking my lessons inside a church building. I would feel very wrong. Not because of the sensuality of the dance, but because the activity is secular. I dunno. If anyone figures out the answer to this dilemma, do me a favor and give me a call, too. :wall::wall::wall:

 

[lizaj]

I think there might be something else behind this.
I teach in a hall belonging to the Cof E and have no problems, In fact the hall allowm me to promote my class and many of the ladies who come belong to the church and the townswomen's guild! I am doing a talk for local girl guides attached to another church. Over the last 7 years I have held halfas in halls belonging the the RC church and have performed for schools and churches.
Of course you get the narrow minded in every organisatin but I haven't found local church's so.
I read she objected to her costume bra ...you mean she teaches in it...er ?
If that is what you meant, I find that inappropriate not because she might look sexy but that's for performance not instruction.
If you meant otherwise, I am sorry to have misread.
But you know the media does us no favour. Britain's Got Talent manages to twist arrange the BD performances to focus on parts of our anatomy of course. I had , in spite of my plea, someone perform to burlesque music at my last hafla because the connotations and the venue. The performance was very proper but the music suggestive and risky.
I would imagine your local church or village hall is the chosen or only venue for many many teacher and we have to be aware of other's sensibilities. Wether you like it or not, they have as much right to their opinions as do we.

 

[Brea]

...

 

[PriscillaAdum]

Maybe they have the notion that Jesus, Mary and the disciples (as proper middle-easterners) danced the Virginia Reel?

Regards
Priscilla

I'm Christian, too. I dance because Jesus said I could...lol, and he did too (dance, that is), so I don't think there's anything particularly wrong with dancing *even in a church!*
Considering all the biblical dancing that went on from David to Jesus I think that people should not get so wound up about it.

However, I personally teach out of yoga studios (pay monthly rent, etc), if that helps.

 

[Brea]

...

 

[Mosaic]

Here in Australia we have community centres, where all sorts of classes are held, painting, mosaics, weightwatchers, computer courses, bollywood and bellydance etc, etc. The community centres are cheap and meant to be so, so that people of all socio-economic levels can afford to join a class of interest. I don't know whether UK has such centres, but maybe your teacher could look into it. Community centres are not attched to any religious affiliation, but to one's local council.

It is such a shame that some people are so prudish and can't see beyond the flesh, to a group of people having fun.

Most church halls here seem to be OK about BD or other type of dance classes, but I am sure there are some people who think it is "not seemly".

Don't give up, get your teacher to get in touch with the local council, or does anyone in the class have a rumpus room or large room that could be used for classes, even an unused garage that could be tissied up. Another thought is an unused wharehouse somewhere. An owner may be happy to have a bit of rent for such a place, and all the students could get together to paint and primp the place, cheaply.
~Mosaic

 

[Farasha Hanem]

*sigh* I'm still struggling with the issue, but I think part of it for me, personally, is that I've always regarded my church as a spiritual haven from the regular world. Kind of like how I feel about camping and hiking: I go camping to get away from technology (at least as much as possible). I love being in the peaceful outdoors, away from telephones (I bring the cell only in case something bad happens, like a breakdown or if we get in an accident), away from microwaves, TV, video games, and all the distracting noise-makers (okay, we bring the kids). I just like keeping certain aspects of my life separate, so I can rejuvenate.

I'll tell you what IS a sin though: that gosh-awful, hideODEOUS dance studio where my poor teacher holds her classes. The building is black and pink, and is dripping with fur boas in hideous colors all over the walls, zebra patterns, Pepto-Bismol pink decor, and...and...well, you'd just have to see it to believe it. It looks like the girls from the movie "Clueless" were the interior decorators, and they just threw up all over the place. :shok:

 

[Reen.Blom]

Cant you ladies and your teacher wrte to them? Maybe try to explain? I know that prolly wont help but maybe worth trying? It does sound like that lady freaked out cos of her bra... ( my teacher was always wearing a sleeveless top , and show stomach only when needed to demonstrate certain moves)...

I wish you best of luck with finding a new studio. And as for me- dancing expresses joy of living, that in my mind CAN be a form of worship. I would always consider other people's feelings (mmmm I have been to churches where you cant go with your head uncovered, forget about pants or short sleeves)...

And HEY did not Alexandros dance in a Catholic church????? I think whatever his grieves were with the music system, I personally think it is awesome!

 

[PriscillaAdum]

Maybe they need time to get used to the idea, and perhaps writing them a letter explaining just what middle eastern dance is, as Reen.Blom suggested might be a good idea.
I can remember when I was a teenager in the early 70's and our (catholic) church decided to have a "guitar" mass just for the younger church goers rather than with the traditional pipe organ. They brought in two or three acoustic guitars, a tambourine and a couple of other instruments that I can't remember right now. Right up there next to the altar. You would not believe the rucus that caused. Guitars in church?? We were heathen. Only the devil could be behind such a thing.
The more closed minded people avoided the 9 o'clock mass like the plague...and complained for years afterwards that it was a sin to play a guitar in church. But curiously enough, it was the only mass that had every single pew filled to overflowing and people even standing in the back and on the sides.

Regards
Priscilla

 

[Reen.Blom]

Maybe they need time to get used to the idea, and perhaps writing them a letter explaining just what middle eastern dance is, as Reen.Blom suggested might be a good idea.
I can remember when I was a teenager in the early 70's and our (catholic) church decided to have a "guitar" mass just for the younger church goers rather than with the traditional pipe organ. They brought in two or three acoustic guitars, a tambourine and a couple of other instruments that I can't remember right now. Right up there next to the altar. You would not believe the rucus that caused. Guitars in church?? We were heathen. Only the devil could be behind such a thing.
The more closed minded people avoided the 9 o'clock mass like the plague...and complained for years afterwards that it was a sin to play a guitar in church. But curiously enough, it was the only mass that had every single pew filled to overflowing and people even standing in the back and on the sides.

Regards
Priscilla

Hey hey How about organ+trumpet+guitar+tambourine+bongo drums.... LOL Actually THAT sounded awesome and still rather traditional, but well the pastor was on the bongo's.... ha ha

 

[Suheir]

The more closed minded people avoided the 9 o'clock mass like the plague...and complained for years afterwards that it was a sin to play a guitar in church. But curiously enough, it was the only mass that had every single pew filled to overflowing and people even standing in the back and on the sides.

Well, what with Jesus being from the Middle East I would've thought an oud would be more appropriate! :lol:

 

[malena_l]

No comment.. i'm angry 2

I'm angry to.. orcourse its not a lap dancing.. people get serious..
I need some advice, I want to practice belly dance at home.. can someone help me?
Thx..
Malena

 

[da Sage]

*sigh* I'm still struggling with the issue, but I think part of it for me, personally, is that I've always regarded my church as a spiritual haven from the regular world. Kind of like how I feel about camping and hiking: I go camping to get away from technology (at least as much as possible). I love being in the peaceful outdoors, away from telephones (I bring the cell only in case something bad happens, like a breakdown or if we get in an accident), away from microwaves, TV, video games, and all the distracting noise-makers (okay, we bring the kids). I just like keeping certain aspects of my life separate, so I can rejuvenate.

I'll tell you what IS a sin though: that gosh-awful, hideODEOUS dance studio where my poor teacher holds her classes. The building is black and pink, and is dripping with fur boas in hideous colors all over the walls, zebra patterns, Pepto-Bismol pink decor, and...and...well, you'd just have to see it to believe it. It looks like the girls from the movie "Clueless" were the interior decorators, and they just threw up all over the place. :shok:

I would dig classes in a studio like that. In fact, I'd be happy to LIVE in a place like that (minus the fur boas, of course).

 

[Farasha Hanem]

I would dig classes in a studio like that. In fact, I'd be happy to LIVE in a place like that (minus the fur boas, of course).

You could always move here to my home town! Hey! Then we could be in the same class together! Oh, wait, maybe not; you're a much better dancer than I am.