Budding Prima Donnas, Show-offs, etc.

Reen.Blom

New member
She has not yet built on this basic skill and may not ever if she does not have the dance skills innate in herself.

Hmmmmm INTERESTING......

So that means that there are people out there who will never "get it" cos they are born ""with 2 left feet"? I was under the impresion that although some people are more talented in one sphere than the other,there are not those totally deprived and not trainable?????.....

Your thoughts on that?
 

Aisha Azar

New member
Obnoxious student

I am a student dealing with a prima donna student in my class. She is very talented. She is just a natural dancer. Unfortunately, she lets everyone know she is. During class and rehearsal for recitals she will talk or rude noises while others are practicing. She is already trying out for the teachers group. She will gossip during rehearsals with girls from that group making snide comments about the other students who are not as talented as she. The teacher is so nice, she doesn't correct or say anything to her. It stresses out the rest of us students and frazzles us. Our classes when that prima donna is not there, flows and is much funner when she's not around. The rest of us are very encouraging to each other. We don't need that prima donna around.:naghty:


Dear Dreamkitaro,
Your instructor should be dealing with this person and making them be considerate of the rest of the class. I suggest that a group of you get together and discuss it with the teacher. This is the best alternative.
The other alternative is to approach the woman every time she starts up and ask her what she means by her behavior. This takes a LOT of courage and willingness to confront someone on your own behalf and it is not easy, so I suggest the other method. Sometimes standing ip for oneself will put a stop to one problem and lead to another, but if the majority of the group does it, should have a good outcomes, even if it is just to get rid of the trouble maker.
Unfortunately, there is no easy solution.
Regards,
A'isha
 

Shanazel

Moderator
The teacher may be nice, but she is also either apathetic, oblivious, or just plain reluctant for some reason (fear? blackmail?) to tell her nasty student to knock it off. I agree with A'isha about how to deal with it: teacher first, group effort if that fails. When faced with persistent nastiness, a friend of mine sets a wondering gaze on the offender and murmurs "Now, why on earth would you say something like that?" in a voice that is gentle, southern lady to the max, yet leaves no doubt in her listeners that a social faux pas has been made. I try to emulate her technique, but, alas, lack her polish.
 

Aisha Azar

New member
Dance etc.

Hmmmmm INTERESTING......

So that means that there are people out there who will never "get it" cos they are born ""with 2 left feet"? I was under the impresion that although some people are more talented in one sphere than the other,there are not those totally deprived and not trainable?????.....

Your thoughts on that?


Dear Reen,
Sorry, I just noticed this was addressed to me....
I believe that Middle Eastern dance is just like any other thing in the arts. Not all of us can be good painters, not all of us can be ballerinas, or tap dancers, etc. I think that aptitude counts for a lot in one's ability to do the dances of the Middle East, just like it does in anything else. I often see the dance marketed as if anyone can do it and I think that is part of the problem with us being taken seriously. It is not true that anyone can belly dance. However a person who can not belly dance might have other things they can do in the world of Middle Eastern dance. Maybe someone has a great ear for singing in a certain style, or they can create incredible costumes. Maybe they have a knack for traveling and bringing back important information about the cultures and dances in a way that hits home with many people. I had a student who was not a good dancer because she just could not physically get it together, but, she was an amazing choreographer! She had the right stuff in her mind and soul, but it just did not connect to her body. We had other people do the dances she created and it was a sublime arrangement. Maybe someone who is not a good belly dancer will be great at Debke or have a real feeling and innate understanding for creating perfect websites for dancers. Because there are so many things connected to the dance, I think there is something for everybody on a different level than being a great dancer.
The other thing is that everyone who takes dance classes should not expect to become great dancers, any more than people who take other types of dance classes do. Unfortunately, we have led our students to believe they can all be fabulous and it just is not true. It takes years of work just to get through the physical layers of the dance, never mind to to its heart and soul!
Regards,
A'isha
 

Reen.Blom

New member
I was just thinking.... That alot of that stuff is due to lack of training and maybe connection with one's body.... Maybe training in early years.... but to think that someone is born totally deprived of certain talent? I dunno, I tend to believe that most things can be developed... although the more damage is done the more time it will take to repair....

Gosh, I just cant believe that because I was shy and afraid of teacher when I was 5yo to repeat what she was singing, I was denied the chance to study music, cos she declared me tone deaf! ( we had a piano for me to practice on) But thanks to that lady who decided I was born without "music skills" I never got trained. Only now years later I realise that what I have been told and belived myself all my life that I dont have "music skills" is not true!

Yeah to start repairing damage now? Unfortunatly I dont have resources for it now.

So I am always cautious about people stating that someone "does not have what it takes"....
 

Aisha Azar

New member
Dance etc.

I was just thinking.... That alot of that stuff is due to lack of training and maybe connection with one's body.... Maybe training in early years.... but to think that someone is born totally deprived of certain talent? I dunno, I tend to believe that most things can be developed... although the more damage is done the more time it will take to repair....

Gosh, I just cant believe that because I was shy and afraid of teacher when I was 5yo to repeat what she was singing, I was denied the chance to study music, cos she declared me tone deaf! ( we had a piano for me to practice on) But thanks to that lady who decided I was born without "music skills" I never got trained. Only now years later I realise that what I have been told and belived myself all my life that I dont have "music skills" is not true!

Yeah to start repairing damage now? Unfortunatly I dont have resources for it now
.



Dear Reen,
Other people declaring that one has or has not got talent is not what makes it so!! Talent is there or it is not, regardless of what any teacher says. I honestly do not believe that all people have the ability do all things, but that we each are born with our own set of unique skills and talents. I am a good example. I am a good Egyptian belly dancer and a lousy typist, though I have been typing, after having taken classes, since I was about 15. I can make the most beautiful, intricate beadwork, but I can't do pottery very well at all. I could do good beadwork the first time I picked up the needle, though my skill has grown. The stuff was there in me! It is not there for me to work in clay.


So I am always cautious about people stating that someone "does not have what it takes"....


Well, as I said, what people say does not always make it the truth, but I still think we all have our own set of skills and places where we are not so skilled as well. People can enjoy the dance at many different levels and not everyone has to become a great professional dancer in order to enjoy dancing!

Regards,
A'isha
 

jenc

New member
I think what it is that we can have something knocked out of us - just look at the number of young children who can sing compared with adults, but that we also have different levels of aptitude. It is simply not true that everyone could be a genius if encouraged.
With perseverence, I could regain my singing ability enough to sing in a choir, but soloist never. Dance on the other hand.............
 

Reen.Blom

New member
I think what it is that we can have something knocked out of us - just look at the number of young children who can sing compared with adults, but that we also have different levels of aptitude. It is simply not true that everyone could be a genius if encouraged.
With perseverence, I could regain my singing ability enough to sing in a choir, but soloist never. Dance on the other hand.............

Well I am not saying that anyone could be trained to be a genius, but on the other hand to say that one was born "without skills" also not true IMHO...
 

Aisha Azar

New member
Dance

Well I am not saying that anyone could be trained to be a genius, but on the other hand to say that one was born "without skills" also not true IMHO...


Dear Reen,
Just out of curiousity, do you think everyone can be a be a belly dancer?
Regards,
A'isha
 

Farasha Hanem

New member
I've been reading this thread with much interest, although I'm not so sure I have anything worthwhile to add to it. :(

Amarise, I'm eons away from being an instructor, especially since i'm still so new to the dance. But I'd like to share a bit of my own story, if it's all right.

Before I started taking bellydance classes, I practiced bellydance all alone with instructional DVD's for about 7 years. Fun, yes, helpful, not really. I knew I was missing out on a lot without the benefit of having a living, breathing teacher being there to help correct my mistakes, and to encourage me when I was doing something right. So although I had a vague idea of how to execute certain basic moves, I knew that there was much learning I was lacking. :( I started buying books, which did provide a little more information. I was amazed at how many styles of bellydance there are! Still, reading and working out to videos wasn't enough.

Then, last September, one of the dance studios here where I live offered bellydance lessons! :D I was so completely happy. When our class first started getting acquainted with each other, I did share that I'd been trying on my own with DVD's for years, but that I got nowhere fast, because nothing can replace having an actual teacher train you. The other ladies in our class are so wonderful; they aren't prima donnas at all, and I've made lots of new friends. :D I'm usually too busy watching my teacher (and subsequently watching myself) to really notice anyone else in class during practice. But occasionally, I see what my friends are doing, and they're amazing! :D A number of them have picked up quickly on what's being taught (especially the beginner class that just recently joined my class---long story). Our class is so much fun, and we get together to perform at Ren Faires (sorry, Moon! :confused: ), and even had an end-of-the-year party at our teacher's house. :dance: :D The one girl who was a bit of a trouble-maker in the beginning quit class, so all in all, it has been a wonderful, joyful experience.

There are two things in life that my grandmother, who raised me, taught me, and they've stayed with me all my life:

"The universe does NOT revolve around you"

and

"No matter what you do in life, sweetheart, no matter what talents you may have, there will ALWAYS be someone better than you"

I'm so very grateful for the important lessons my grandmother taught me.
 

Aniseteph

New member
...When faced with persistent nastiness, a friend of mine sets a wondering gaze on the offender and murmurs "Now, why on earth would you say something like that?" in a voice that is gentle, southern lady to the max, yet leaves no doubt in her listeners that a social faux pas has been made...

That is just perfect! :cool:

As usual I'm banned from leaving you rep.
 

Amarise

New member
I am a student dealing with a prima donna student in my class. She is very talented. She is just a natural dancer. Unfortunately, she lets everyone know she is. During class and rehearsal for recitals she will talk or rude noises while others are practicing. She is already trying out for the teachers group. She will gossip during rehearsals with girls from that group making snide comments about the other students who are not as talented as she. The teacher is so nice, she doesn't correct or say anything to her. It stresses out the rest of us students and frazzles us. Our classes when that prima donna is not there, flows and is much funner when she's not around. The rest of us are very encouraging to each other. We don't need that prima donna around.:naghty:

I would agree with what has already been suggested about his situation.

I would suggest you and some of the other unhappy students approach your teacher respectfully about your feelings with this problem student. I have a hard time believing she does not see what is going on but tell her anyway. If she is scared of this student's backlash for some reason, maybe seeing that there are people who also see what is going on will give her the courage to confront this problem student. Students like this can be a cancer in a group and ruin it for everyone eventually.

Best of luck to you. It is hard to be a fellow student and have to deal with this. A teacher can ask such a student to leave for misconduct if necessary but a fellow student does not have that option.

Amarise
 

Amarise

New member
There are two things in life that my grandmother, who raised me, taught me, and they've stayed with me all my life:

"The universe does NOT revolve around you"

and

"No matter what you do in life, sweetheart, no matter what talents you may have, there will ALWAYS be someone better than you"

I'm so very grateful for the important lessons my grandmother taught me.

What great wisdom. :)

And yes, there is ALWAYS someone better and even if there may not be at that moment, there will be at some point! The longer I study this dance, the more I see I would like to learn and need to learn.

Amarise
 

Jane

New member
I was always one of the better dancers in my class and I suspect many of us are or were as well. If we weren't good or had talent, most of us wouldn't have stuck around. It's easy in class to be a big fish in a small pond.

I think there needs to be a clear divide between being in the top of your class and bad behavior. They are not mutually exclusive or joined at the hip.

I place most of the responsibility on the teacher. A teacher has control over what happens in the class- period. If a student is detrimental to others and will not change their behavior, tell them not to come back.

If they are good and they know it, I see that as self-confidence which can be adjusted to be great on stage if channeled appropriately . Bad behavior is bad behavior with no correlation to perceived talent.

There will always be someone better than you, and sooner or later we are all humbled. It's how you take it that matters. You can sit back and b*tch and complain or you can improve yourself. You are the only person whose behavior you have control over.
 

Moon

New member
Even though people are not talented at all, I think everyone will at least get a tiny bit better when taking lessons. What does it matter if you'll never be a good bellydancer? If you enjoy it, then do it. You will always improve and be a better dancer than you were before.
 

Reen.Blom

New member
I was always one of the better dancers in my class and I suspect many of us are or were as well. If we weren't good or had talent, most of us wouldn't have stuck around. It's easy in class to be a big fish in a small pond.

I think there needs to be a clear divide between being in the top of your class and bad behavior. They are not mutually exclusive or joined at the hip.

I place most of the responsibility on the teacher. A teacher has control over what happens in the class- period. If a student is detrimental to others and will not change their behavior, tell them not to come back.

If they are good and they know it, I see that as self-confidence which can be adjusted to be great on stage if channeled appropriately . Bad behavior is bad behavior with no correlation to perceived talent.

There will always be someone better than you, and sooner or later we are all humbled. It's how you take it that matters. You can sit back and b*tch and complain or you can improve yourself. You are the only person whose behavior you have control over.

:clap: Agreed 100%
 

Aisha Azar

New member
Dance, etc.

Even though people are not talented at all, I think everyone will at least get a tiny bit better when taking lessons. What does it matter if you'll never be a good bellydancer? If you enjoy it, then do it. You will always improve and be a better dancer than you were before.




Dear Moon,
The important addendum in this case is that it is okay people have the good common sense and respect for the dance to realize whether or not they are professional quality dancers or hobbyists. There is nothing at all wrong with just enjoying the dance for the sake of doing it, but the problem develops when someone decides they are way better than they actually are and they pass themselves off as professional when they are not. We owe something back to the dance and one of the big things is doing an honest appraisal of our abilities in the form and working in the venues that are appropriate to our skill levels.
Regards,
A'isha
 
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