OK then Belly Dance Superstars Show

[taheya]

Yes but why does he feel it necessary to do the stripper thing?

Yes, I agree, everytime I see a pic of ozgen with that silly rope I wonder why????

 

[taheya]

For those who have seen his act with the rope.....what does he do with it... does it allude to S+ M???!! :think:

 

[gisela]

I've seen it but somehow I can't remember exactly. Didn't leave a great impression on me. Nour, Tito, Asmahan, khaled mahmoud, aida nour etc were in the same show so he had some competition
I think he used it a bit like a cane but more macho. Not like a whip though.

 

[Monica]

For those who have seen his act with the rope.....what does he do with it...

Gilded Serpent has video footage from the recent Toronto conference, and Ozgen is on one of them (I believe the Thursday main stage). So you can see for yourself!
IBCC daily reports for the Gilded Serpent

(There is some great footage in general, btw!)

 

[Caroline_afifi]

I have to say that anyone who whips off and item of clothing during a dance performance is asking for it.
I was disapointed that the women responded to it.
If I dont agree with something, I dont act in a way which actively encourages it. The fact that everyone shrieked meant to me that they approved and wanted more.
Get a Grip, there are specialist male dance groups to cater for this... complete with 100 burly bouncers.

 

[lizaj]

My main objection to the "novelty " of the dance is that it detracts from the dancing. However as has been pointed out the Turks especially see this as a very sexual dance and Ozgen maybe sees this is what it is all about and he did please a lot of women But he was part of the Fri show which for me proved that BD doesn't always translate to a big stage.It was so much better to watch in the venue as was the Matinee. The more I think about it Soloists in the first half of the Sat. show had a hard time showing themselves off, I think..getting over their personality, what makes them distinctive and special. As for the BDSS part of the show, they seemed to be depleted in numbers and even as Suheir said on my "venue" thread they are aiming to perform on a bigger stage, didn't quite make it. The tribal fusion in particular..no matter how skilful in their genre were the girls (and they are) they looked insignificent from up in the Gods. Only the bigger set peices worked. Oh and why all the repetition..other dance companies don't usually come back again another year and do it all again without making it clear, that is.
It made me sad to go to class the next week and hear my students who attended the Raqs B Sat show..say "I'm not going again..and that goes for the whole weekend!" I had another teacher friend say"Thank God I had my Saturday pass as well as the show...at least that was excellent value!"
I valued so highly much of what I saw but I think they need to give a serious rethink on content and venue. And consider why Friday and the Sat. matinee pleased many of us more than Sat.when that should have been the highlight !:think:

 

[Suheir]

Oh and why all the repetition..other dance companies don't usually come back again another year and do it all again without making it clear, that is.
It made me sad to go to class the next week and hear my students who attended the Raqs B Sat show..say "I'm not going again..and that goes for the whole weekend!" I had another teacher friend say"Thank God I had my Saturday pass as well as the show...at least that was excellent value!"
I valued so highly much of what I saw but I think they need to give a serious rethink on content and venue. And consider why Friday and the Sat. matinee pleased many of us more than Sat.when that should have been the highlight !:think:

Very interesting. Riverdance (remember Miles wanted to emulate it?) has managed to keep going for years with tweaks here and there but it is truly spectacular and I'd go and see it again at the drop of a hat. The second time I saw the BDSS, the sulky faces on some of those girls were unbelievable - you really think an audience wants to watch performers who'd clearly rather be somewhere else? I saw a TV documentary about behind-the-scenes at Riverdance and those performers are in *such* pain when they come off-stage that they stand in buckets of ice up to their thighs but you'd never guess for a second when they're actually performing.

I'm delighted that homegrown performers are now showing what they can really do and I hope that audiences are starting to realise that there's more to Oriental dance than tits'n'teeth.

 

[Caroline_afifi]

Very interesting. Riverdance (remember Miles wanted to emulate it?) has managed to keep going for years with tweaks here and there but it is truly spectacular and I'd go and see it again at the drop of a hat. The second time I saw the BDSS, the sulky faces on some of those girls were unbelievable - you really think an audience wants to watch performers who'd clearly rather be somewhere else? I saw a TV documentary about behind-the-scenes at Riverdance and those performers are in *such* pain when they come off-stage that they stand in buckets of ice up to their thighs but you'd never guess for a second when they're actually performing.

I'm delighted that homegrown performers are now showing what they can really do and I hope that audiences are starting to realise that there's more to Oriental dance than tits'n'teeth.

I understand the compeletly what you are saying but..

Having worked around the Bellydance superstars for the past three years, you would not be believe how ordinary they are.
I see them in their civvies before they get dressed and I see them at breakfast etc. and they dont swan around saying 'HEY Look I AM A SUPERSTAR!!'
They look like they get spots and cold sores like the rest of us. they dont look surgically enhanced, and if they are they were very careful about it.
They dont wear make up, wear glasses and trudge around in their old trackies. they look the opposite of what you imagine. They are young to 40's in age and Jillina is not size zero but a healthy womanly shape.
I think the title of Superstar and the stage image actually gives people the wrong impression about the real individuals whom participate in this show.
Perhaps it is the package people have the problem with?

 

[Aisha Azar]

Dance etc

I understand the compeletly what you are saying but..

Having worked around the Bellydance superstars for the past three years, you would not be believe how ordinary they are.
I see them in their civvies before they get dressed and I see them at breakfast etc. and they dont swan around saying 'HEY Look I AM A SUPERSTAR!!'
They look like they get spots and cold sores like the rest of us. they dont look surgically enhanced, and if they are they were very careful about it.
They dont wear make up, wear glasses and trudge around in their old trackies. they look the opposite of what you imagine. They are young to 40's in age and Jillina is not size zero but a healthy womanly shape.
I think the title of Superstar and the stage image actually gives people the wrong impression about the real individuals whom participate in this show.
Perhaps it is the package people have the problem with?

Dear Caroline,
My problem with the BDSS is that they are usually neither superstars nor great belly dancers for the most part. There is the occasionally truly talented person, but often they are hidden under mundane choreographies and parlor tricks. The show waters down considerably a very difficult art form and makes it appear plastic and easy. Then there are the unreasonable dimensions that have no place on a stage at all unless someone is truly talented, such as "Bellynesian", which is an insult to two distinct cultures. Sabbah is the best thing they have, and she is truly talented in her fusion style. Is it belly dance? No. Is it ballet? No, but she has created, with the help of Hallah, a new art form that is just beautiful.
Some years ago on this forum, I had a knock down drag out with Miles Copeland about the quality of the work they were presenting. ( You think the thing with the male dance shows is bad???) He ended up buying me tickets to the show and after we spent 4 hours discussing things in a nearby lounge. We found that we liked each other well enough as people, but that we will continue to disagree about the show. He finally did admit to me that he knows little or nothing about belly dance and does not care about the technical dance elements. He is a producer, not a dancer, but I wish he would feel a little more responsibility to the dance itself.
Regards,
A'isha

 

[lizaj]

I have to say that I think Bozenka is a really good (if not great) belly dancer . And she was a pleasure to watch and really stood out on that stage as a star and a bit of a super one at that!
But who does deserves the GREAT label ? The truly GREAT dancing I have seen has been mostly Egyptianson film and in the flesh or dancers very much immersed in the style . Others will have different opinions and love Turkish style and Tribal Fusion etc etc....
I am sure that some Americans exposed only to the likes of BDSS will think they are deservant of the title.

 

[Aisha Azar]

Bdss

I have to say that I think Bozenka is a really good (if not great) belly dancer . And she was a pleasure to watch and really stood out on that stage as a star and a bit of a super one at that!
But who does deserves the GREAT label ? The truly GREAT dancing I have seen has been mostly Egyptianson film and in the flesh or dancers very much immersed in the style . Others will have different opinions and love Turkish style and Tribal Fusion etc etc....
I am sure that some Americans exposed only to the likes of BDSS will think they are deservant of the title.

I would say that the problem is not distinctly American as many European dancers have lauded their performances as well......We happen to have many excellent dancers here.

 

[lizaj]

I would say that the problem is not distinctly American as many European dancers have lauded their performances as well......We happen to have many excellent dancers here.

Sorry I am confused.

When my class first went to BDSS they had seen little else in the way of BIG shows, now they have seen some of the best in the world at Festivals and on tour so they can compare. But I was assuming that there are lots of dancers in America who have not been exposed to anything BIGGER than BDSS. That was my point.
I think yours was different. No body is saying you don't have good dancers but in many cases they don't have the same effect on European audiences as do dancers from "over there".

 

[Aisha Azar]

Dance

Sorry I am confused.

When my class first went to BDSS they had seen little else in the way of BIG shows, now they have seen some of the best in the world at Festivals and on tour so they can compare. But I was assuming that there are lots of dancers in America who have not been exposed to anything BIGGER than BDSS. That was my point.
I think yours was different. No body is saying you don't have good dancers but in many cases they don't have the same effect on European audiences as do dancers from "over there".

My point was many Americans know real dancing when they see it. Actually many, many Egyptian dancers come to the States and we have many followers of Egyptian and Turkish dance here. We have been having world class festivals here for at least 30 years that I know of with big names such as Nagwa Fouad, Nadia Hamdi, Nadia Gamal, Mouna Said, Randa, Fifi, etc.
I understood your point. We have an incredibly large population of dancers in the States and many of us do respect the authentic dances and the dancers from over there far more than we do the BDSS, as well as having many American dancers who perform authentic dance.

Unfortunately, we also have a LOT of people who are reticent to come out and say what is on their minds. Just one recent example among many is from when the BDSS last showed up in my city. I was later talking to a woman from out of State who went to the show and said something like, "Don't you just love them?". My response was ...."Well, no, I don't".
She hung on the phone for a few seconds saying nothing and then said, "You know, the crowd was just so enthusiastic and I just thought I was missing something, so I just went along. But now that you say it, I really didn't like them either." Just another example that many people feel they have to follow the crowd rather than say what they really think. It IS easy to be misled about about how Americans think and feel about them when this kind of thing goes on.

 

[lizaj]

My point was many Americans know real dancing when they see it. Actually many, many Egyptian dancers come to the States and we have many followers of Egyptian and Turkish dance here. We have been having world class festivals here for at least 30 years that I know of with big names such as Nagwa Fouad, Nadia Hamdi, Nadia Gamal, Mouna Said, Randa, Fifi, etc.
I understood your point. We have an incredibly large population of dancers in the States and many of us do respect the authentic dances and the dancers from over there far more than we do the BDSS, as well as having many American dancers who perform authentic dance.

Unfortunately, we also have a LOT of people who are reticent to come out and say what is on their minds. Just one recent example among many is from when the BDSS last showed up in my city. I was later talking to a woman from out of State who went to the show and said something like, "Don't you just love them?". My response was ...."Well, no, I don't".
She hung on the phone for a few seconds saying nothing and then said, "You know, the crowd was just so enthusiastic and I just thought I was missing something, so I just went along. But now that you say it, I really didn't like them either." Just another example that many people feel they have to follow the crowd rather than say what they really think. It IS easy to be misled about about how Americans think and feel about them when this kind of thing goes on.

Oh you certainly hit the nail on the head there in those last sentences. The dancer sitting next to me at Raqa B BDSS show was watching me to see if I clapped and I they..which led to a bit of a hiatus as you might well imagine:lol:

 

[Aisha Azar]

BDSS etc.

Oh you certainly hit the nail on the head there in those last sentences. The dancer sitting next to me at Raqa B BDSS show was watching me to see if I clapped and I they..which led to a bit of a hiatus as you might well imagine:lol:

That's hilarious!!! I wonder what it would be like if everyone did that..... the sound of no hands clapping!!!