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  1. #41
    V.I.P. Reen.Blom's Avatar
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    Yep the custom fees are terrible!

  2. #42
    V.I.P. Aziyade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reen.Blom View Post
    Gosh, I dont think im gonna fork out out 45-50 dollars for a DVD. IMHO Nothing can justify that price. Jenna's Basics and Beyond with 180 min of material for under 20 dollars is a good competition, not to mention lots of other fab and professional DVD in the same price range.

    for you IAMED and others charging rip-off prices! At some point it stops being art, and becomes pure money-making.
    Shareen el Safy has since lowered her video prices, but they were easily worth the $50 I paid for them.

    So were Raqia's.

    So were Morocco's.

    So were Hadia's.

    So were the Ahlan Wa Sahlan videos.

    And the Dina workshops, and the Aida Nour workshops, and the Suhaila certification material dvds, and Aisha Ali's documentaries.


    I really liked Jenna's dvd, but it really can't compare to the content on some of the videos I mentioned here. I don't think we should "shame" independent producers or IAMED for their prices. If the content weren't worth it, people wouldn't pay the price.

    And for every ONE video they sell, how much money do they lose from illegal copies?


    For what it's worth, I have one of Faten's videos and I think it is very informative and worth what I paid for it -- I got it from Dahlal.

  3. #43
    V.I.P. Reen.Blom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aziyade View Post
    Shareen el Safy has since lowered her video prices, but they were easily worth the $50 I paid for them.

    So were Raqia's.

    So were Morocco's.

    So were Hadia's.

    So were the Ahlan Wa Sahlan videos.

    And the Dina workshops, and the Aida Nour workshops, and the Suhaila certification material dvds, and Aisha Ali's documentaries.


    I really liked Jenna's dvd, but it really can't compare to the content on some of the videos I mentioned here. I don't think we should "shame" independent producers or IAMED for their prices. If the content weren't worth it, people wouldn't pay the price. ( I see it as 'were not desperate' for the content... LOL)

    And for every ONE video they sell, how much money do they lose from illegal copies?


    For what it's worth, I have one of Faten's videos and I think it is very informative and worth what I paid for it -- I got it from Dahlal.
    WellI am not saying that Jenna's DVD is the ultimate, I just mentionedit as an example of a resonably priced DVD with LOADS of content and work put into it. Too often the 40min DVD are sold for 50$.

    You can afford it? Good for you! In some countries $50 is a MONTHS wage! Add shipping cost and import tax, that puts things in perspective. So yes, talking about illegal copies, i thin every artist should be paid, but i see where some people come from with having to feed a family for 50$.

    Just because many companies keep the price so high does not automatically make them exceptional value. And face it, many times people are desperate for the material, that's why they pay, and the producers know it.

    Just because high steet charges £2 for a cup of coffee does not make its value become £2 it,does not make the farmer growing coffee get more than the peanuts that he gets paid by big companies, and certainly does not make it justified for a person without a job, even if heis out cold in the rain.

    And I do pray that the Artists get a fair share of that price and not those that make money of them. (Oh and no need to go into costs of production, many of those high price dvds look like they are made in someone's bedroom)

    Sorry I am just disillusioned about branding pricing marketing and advertising in this world, having seen the people live in tin huts and get water out of muddy river. Unless of course it is intended for the wealthy.

    We just should not forget that what is true and real on one side of the world is not necessarily so onb the other.
    Last edited by Reen.Blom; 09-11-2009 at 09:51 PM.

  4. #44
    Member missanime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reen.Blom View Post
    WellI am not saying that Jenna's DVD is the ultimate, I just mentionedit as an example of a resonably priced DVD with LOADS of content and work put into it. Too often the 40min DVD are sold for 50$.

    You can afford it? Good for you! In some countries $50 is a MONTHS wage! Add shipping cost and import tax, that puts things in perspective. So yes, talking about illegal copies, i thin every artist should be paid, but i see where some people come from with having to feed a family for 50$.

    Just because many companies keep the price so high does not automatically make them exceptional value. And face it, many times people are desperate for the material, that's why they pay, and the producers know it.

    Just because high steet charges £2 for a cup of coffee does not make its value become £2 it,does not make the farmer growing coffee get more than the peanuts that he gets paid by big companies, and certainly does not make it justified for a person without a job, even if heis out cold in the rain.

    And I do pray that the Artists get a fair share of that price and not those that make money of them. (Oh and no need to go into costs of production, many of those high price dvds look like they are made in someone's bedroom)

    Sorry I am just disillusioned about branding pricing marketing and advertising in this world, having seen the people live in tin huts and get water out of muddy river. Unless of course it is intended for the wealthy.

    We just should not forget that what is true and real on one side of the world is not necessarily so onb the other.
    Thank you for this
    I too very much think there are SO many out there that are waaaaaay too easily seduced w/the thinking of 'well if it's expensive than it *must* be good'.



  5. #45
    V.I.P. Aziyade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reen.Blom View Post
    WellI am not saying that Jenna's DVD is the ultimate, I just mentionedit as an example of a resonably priced DVD with LOADS of content and work put into it.
    Well if you look at what's actually on that particular dvd, it's the same thing you can find for free on Youtube. I mean, like I said, I liked the dvd, but personally I think just because a dvd is long and includes lots of moves, that doesn't mean its necessarily a better product.


    Too often the 40min DVD are sold for 50$.
    I'm not sure why LENGTH should determine price. I can make a dvd and spend 45 minutes going over how to do a hip drop. If I charge $10 for it, is it really "worth" it? Maybe for a rank beginner, but not necessarily for someone with any experience.

    The value of any instruction (in a live workshop or a dvd) is relative to each person. I pay $50 an hour for private lessons. Some teachers only charge $50 for a whole month of privates. It's worth the $50 for me to get this specific teacher's instruction and knowledge.

    Rachel Brice charges more for her workshops than a local Tribal instructor here. Does that make Rachel greedy or shame-worthy? I really don't think so.


    You can afford it? Good for you!
    No, I really can't. But I make sacrifices. I go without certain things to have other things I want. What does that have to do with anything? I want a brand new car, so should Mercedes lower their price to what Toyota sells cars for?

    In some countries $50 is a MONTHS wage! Add shipping cost and import tax, that puts things in perspective.
    I don't understand what you're arguing here. STUFF is expensive everywhere. I would absolutely LOVE to have those gorgeous Fair-Isle sweaters that they make and sell in Iceland. They're cheap there, but around $350 here. I can't afford that. I don't gripe about it; I just accept that I can't afford it now and may never be able to afford it. That's perspective.

    So yes, talking about illegal copies, i thin every artist should be paid, but i see where some people come from with having to feed a family for 50$.
    Again, I don't see what you're arguing. Are you saying that just because you are poor, you should be able to steal someone else's work? Sorry, I can't get behind that. If you can't afford food, you don't need bellydance dvds for heaven's sake!


    Just because many companies keep the price so high does not automatically make them exceptional value.
    I never said it did. But again, "value" is relative to each person. I listed some dvds that I thought WERE of good value and worth the higher price.

    And face it, many times people are desperate for the material, that's why they pay, and the producers know it.
    Sorry - no. These aren't dvds to show you how to cure cancer. They're SPECIALTY MARKET dvds that offer SPECIFIC and extremely niche market instruction in a rather obscure dance form.

    Ballroom dance dvds are cheaper because the market is larger. How many people in the general public would spend even $10 to learn Ouled Nail dance? Let's be real.

    Keep in mind you're not just paying for the little plastic disc. You're paying for the years of study and research the instructor put into her own training in order to ALLOW her to share this information.

    Just because high steet charges £2 for a cup of coffee does not make its value become £2 it,
    Its value is what people will pay for it. Period.

    A paper bag and a Coach bag serve the same purpose. But people want nice things so they pay $300 for the Coach bag. Burberry sells their plaid scarves for $200, even though the material cost is less than $2 probably. But people will pay $200 for it.

    Americans pay three times as much for "organic" broccoli that is grown on the same farm as broccoli. I have Persian friends that will only buy "name brand" jewelry. People want what they want, and they pay for it.

    And I do pray that the Artists get a fair share of that price and not those that make money of them.
    What's a fair share? Who gets to decide?

    (Oh and no need to go into costs of production, many of those high price dvds look like they are made in someone's bedroom)
    I'd look less at the cost of production and more at the cost of LEARNING ALL THE MATERIAL that is being taught.

    I know a guy who makes arrowheads. He's really good at it, and can make them very quickly. People ask him how long it takes him to make an arrow head. He says, "About 2 minutes. And 50 years." Perspective.

    Sorry I am just disillusioned about branding pricing marketing and advertising in this world, having seen the people live in tin huts and get water out of muddy river. Unless of course it is intended for the wealthy.
    I get Vogue magazine. Do you think I've ever bought a dress that cost $4000? That's the stuff advertised in Vogue. If you want to get mad at big businesses and marketing departments and media, then go ahead. But that's not what we're talking about here. IAMED is two women who love bellydance, not some corporation on the stock market.

    We just should not forget that what is true and real on one side of the world is not necessarily so onb the other.
    I really don't get your point here -- people live in poverty. That's tragic, it is. I feel bad with all the people in MY city who can't afford health care or homes, let alone $5 cups of coffee.

    Americans aren't dripping in gold and jewels. What you see on TV isn't real. My family worked very hard for what they have. I got my first job detasseling corn at 13 years old. I will probably work until I'm 70, unless Medicare collapses completely and I have to work until I die.

    But what does ANY of this have to do with the price and value of a belly dance video?

    ????

  6. #46
    V.I.P. Aziyade's Avatar
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    Reen, I just don't understand why you jumped on Faten's video as an example of a product that is over-priced and so the producer should be considered shameful. Have you ever seen it? I'm not trying to be snarky; I'm just curious.

  7. #47
    Junior Member hede's Avatar
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    Default piracy

    I believe the music industry has already been through the piracy debacle...if they had collaborated with Napster in the first place to make it fair and legal instead of sueing then a whole lot of lawyers would be much poorer :-)

    If the price of the dvd is more reasonable, then reasonable people are less likely to pirate...of course some always will...but I think many people are now happy to pay a small price to download a song legally on itunes or emusic or napster even if they used to illegally 'share' mp3's

    FilmBaby does have a download option for many films, but as I recall it was about $12 or $13 ? and for another couple (plus postage!) I could get the dvd - so chose to buy the dvd's...had the download version been, say, $5 I would have probably downloaded. (This I think would be more inline with the difference in price between buying a cd and downloading a cd. And I would have probably downloaded more and spent the same amount in total...)

    Is there any other site that has legal downloads of dvd's?

  8. #48
    V.I.P. Aziyade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hede View Post
    If the price of the dvd is more reasonable, then reasonable people are less likely to pirate...
    I'm not sure what the research will show, but I don't think I necessarily believe this. I've been to restaurants that sell pirated versions of Persian CDs for $9.99 -- the same CDs you can buy legally for $12.

    But the piracy debate will continue. I think it's a moral issue that people need to decide for themselves. If stealing is morally okay for you, you'll be comfortable doing so. My mother, however, raised me differently. If it's worth stealing, it's worth buying.

    PLUS, Morocco and other producers (Beata and Horacio most receently) have openly stated that piracy has hurt their sales so much that they will no longer produce DVDs or CDs. If you STEAL, you hurt our community. Knowledgeable people no longer distribute their knowledge. That's really sad, and all because of personal greed.

    I think many people are now happy to pay a small price to download a song legally on itunes or emusic or napster even if they used to illegally 'share' mp3's
    I think iTunes is wonderful -- and 99 cents for a song is a bargain. I agree with you here!

    Is there any other site that has legal downloads of dvd's?
    World Dance New York USED to -- I'm not sure if they still do (looks like no -- I sent Neon a message about it). HMC has been talking about it for a while but I haven't seen them actually do it yet.

    That seems to be the answer for overseas consumers too. No physical product, no VAT. Right?

  9. #49
    Super Moderator Mosaic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gisela View Post
    Hi Mosaic
    To me it looks like you get a link to Amazon and Film Baby when you want to buy something. How do we buy directly from Cheeky girls website?
    I bought four cheeky-dvd's a while ago but I got them from Amazon as I couldn't figure out any other way. What "killed" me was the custom fee that was as much as the cost of the dvd's. So I ended up paying twice as much.
    Oh dear, It seems Michelle has changed her method of purchase. I'm sorry I didn't know that. The last CD I purchased I got directly through her website. Cheeky Girl Prods use to also sell on ebay. I will see if i can find the link.

    Seems I won't be buying anymore CGPs DVDs if they are only through Amazon that is way too expensive. What a shame, I think I will email her as I have her email addy and see if she can accomodate us International dnacers with a cheaper postage place.

    I found this ebay store with a wide selection and only USD$5 postage for international it seems. I can;t find CGP on ebay so maybe she is selling there anymore either.

    eBay Store ? A World Music Instruction Videos: Search results for.
    ~Mosaic
    Dance is like glitter, it not only colours your life, it makes you sparkle, you find it everywhere and in everything and it's near impossible to get rid of. (unknown)


  10. #50
    Super Moderator Mosaic's Avatar
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    By the way, I purchased from WDNY Ranya Renee's Baladi 2 CD set for USD$24.98. It is fabulous & extremely good value. Only USD$5 for International post. There is a full write up about it here:
    The Baladi - Bellydance Egyptian Style 2-DVD Set : Dance : Bellydance : World Dance New York.

    Sarah Skinner's Opulent Motion is another one I have, also fabulous and at USD$14.98 well worth buying plus a tiny $5 post cost.

    I am very happy to recommend these 2 DVDs and WDNY as a place to buy from.

    I don't believe you have to spend $40/$50 dollars for excellent DVDs. I know there have been a couple I have been interested in, but the DVD cost was just too expensive at $40+ then around USD$10 to 15 dollars postage, so I just don't buy them. I can't afford that sort of cost for a DVD, whether it be dance or anything else.
    ~Mosaic



    Dance is like glitter, it not only colours your life, it makes you sparkle, you find it everywhere and in everything and it's near impossible to get rid of. (unknown)


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