Instructional DVD's

Amanda (was Aziyade)

Well-known member
Gosh, I dont think im gonna fork out out 45-50 dollars for a DVD. IMHO Nothing can justify that price. Jenna's Basics and Beyond with 180 min of material for under 20 dollars is a good competition, not to mention lots of other fab and professional DVD in the same price range.

:naghty: for you IAMED and others charging rip-off prices! At some point it stops being art, and becomes pure money-making. :mad:

Shareen el Safy has since lowered her video prices, but they were easily worth the $50 I paid for them.

So were Raqia's.

So were Morocco's.

So were Hadia's.

So were the Ahlan Wa Sahlan videos.

And the Dina workshops, and the Aida Nour workshops, and the Suhaila certification material dvds, and Aisha Ali's documentaries.


I really liked Jenna's dvd, but it really can't compare to the content on some of the videos I mentioned here. I don't think we should "shame" independent producers or IAMED for their prices. If the content weren't worth it, people wouldn't pay the price.

And for every ONE video they sell, how much money do they lose from illegal copies?


For what it's worth, I have one of Faten's videos and I think it is very informative and worth what I paid for it -- I got it from Dahlal.
 

Reen.Blom

New member
Shareen el Safy has since lowered her video prices, but they were easily worth the $50 I paid for them.

So were Raqia's.

So were Morocco's.

So were Hadia's.

So were the Ahlan Wa Sahlan videos.

And the Dina workshops, and the Aida Nour workshops, and the Suhaila certification material dvds, and Aisha Ali's documentaries.


I really liked Jenna's dvd, but it really can't compare to the content on some of the videos I mentioned here. I don't think we should "shame" independent producers or IAMED for their prices. If the content weren't worth it, people wouldn't pay the price. ( I see it as 'were not desperate' for the content... LOL)

And for every ONE video they sell, how much money do they lose from illegal copies?


For what it's worth, I have one of Faten's videos and I think it is very informative and worth what I paid for it -- I got it from Dahlal.

WellI am not saying that Jenna's DVD is the ultimate, I just mentionedit as an example of a resonably priced DVD with LOADS of content and work put into it. Too often the 40min DVD are sold for 50$.

You can afford it? Good for you! In some countries $50 is a MONTHS wage! Add shipping cost and import tax, that puts things in perspective. So yes, talking about illegal copies, i thin every artist should be paid, but i see where some people come from with having to feed a family for 50$.

Just because many companies keep the price so high does not automatically make them exceptional value. And face it, many times people are desperate for the material, that's why they pay, and the producers know it.

Just because high steet charges £2 for a cup of coffee does not make its value become £2 it,does not make the farmer growing coffee get more than the peanuts that he gets paid by big companies, and certainly does not make it justified for a person without a job, even if heis out cold in the rain.

And I do pray that the Artists get a fair share of that price and not those that make money of them. (Oh and no need to go into costs of production, many of those high price dvds look like they are made in someone's bedroom;))

Sorry I am just disillusioned about branding pricing marketing and advertising in this world, having seen the people live in tin huts and get water out of muddy river. Unless of course it is intended for the wealthy.

We just should not forget that what is true and real on one side of the world is not necessarily so onb the other.
 
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missanime

New member
WellI am not saying that Jenna's DVD is the ultimate, I just mentionedit as an example of a resonably priced DVD with LOADS of content and work put into it. Too often the 40min DVD are sold for 50$.

You can afford it? Good for you! In some countries $50 is a MONTHS wage! Add shipping cost and import tax, that puts things in perspective. So yes, talking about illegal copies, i thin every artist should be paid, but i see where some people come from with having to feed a family for 50$.

Just because many companies keep the price so high does not automatically make them exceptional value. And face it, many times people are desperate for the material, that's why they pay, and the producers know it.

Just because high steet charges £2 for a cup of coffee does not make its value become £2 it,does not make the farmer growing coffee get more than the peanuts that he gets paid by big companies, and certainly does not make it justified for a person without a job, even if heis out cold in the rain.

And I do pray that the Artists get a fair share of that price and not those that make money of them. (Oh and no need to go into costs of production, many of those high price dvds look like they are made in someone's bedroom;))

Sorry I am just disillusioned about branding pricing marketing and advertising in this world, having seen the people live in tin huts and get water out of muddy river. Unless of course it is intended for the wealthy.

We just should not forget that what is true and real on one side of the world is not necessarily so onb the other.

Thank you for this :)
I too very much think there are SO many out there that are waaaaaay too easily seduced w/the thinking of 'well if it's expensive than it *must* be good'.


:clap::D:dance:
 

Amanda (was Aziyade)

Well-known member
WellI am not saying that Jenna's DVD is the ultimate, I just mentionedit as an example of a resonably priced DVD with LOADS of content and work put into it.

Well if you look at what's actually on that particular dvd, it's the same thing you can find for free on Youtube. I mean, like I said, I liked the dvd, but personally I think just because a dvd is long and includes lots of moves, that doesn't mean its necessarily a better product.


Too often the 40min DVD are sold for 50$.

I'm not sure why LENGTH should determine price. I can make a dvd and spend 45 minutes going over how to do a hip drop. If I charge $10 for it, is it really "worth" it? Maybe for a rank beginner, but not necessarily for someone with any experience.

The value of any instruction (in a live workshop or a dvd) is relative to each person. I pay $50 an hour for private lessons. Some teachers only charge $50 for a whole month of privates. It's worth the $50 for me to get this specific teacher's instruction and knowledge.

Rachel Brice charges more for her workshops than a local Tribal instructor here. Does that make Rachel greedy or shame-worthy? I really don't think so.


You can afford it? Good for you!

No, I really can't. But I make sacrifices. I go without certain things to have other things I want. What does that have to do with anything? I want a brand new car, so should Mercedes lower their price to what Toyota sells cars for?

In some countries $50 is a MONTHS wage! Add shipping cost and import tax, that puts things in perspective.

I don't understand what you're arguing here. STUFF is expensive everywhere. I would absolutely LOVE to have those gorgeous Fair-Isle sweaters that they make and sell in Iceland. They're cheap there, but around $350 here. I can't afford that. I don't gripe about it; I just accept that I can't afford it now and may never be able to afford it. That's perspective.

So yes, talking about illegal copies, i thin every artist should be paid, but i see where some people come from with having to feed a family for 50$.

Again, I don't see what you're arguing. Are you saying that just because you are poor, you should be able to steal someone else's work? Sorry, I can't get behind that. If you can't afford food, you don't need bellydance dvds for heaven's sake!


Just because many companies keep the price so high does not automatically make them exceptional value.

I never said it did. But again, "value" is relative to each person. I listed some dvds that I thought WERE of good value and worth the higher price.

And face it, many times people are desperate for the material, that's why they pay, and the producers know it.

Sorry - no. These aren't dvds to show you how to cure cancer. They're SPECIALTY MARKET dvds that offer SPECIFIC and extremely niche market instruction in a rather obscure dance form.

Ballroom dance dvds are cheaper because the market is larger. How many people in the general public would spend even $10 to learn Ouled Nail dance? Let's be real.

Keep in mind you're not just paying for the little plastic disc. You're paying for the years of study and research the instructor put into her own training in order to ALLOW her to share this information.

Just because high steet charges £2 for a cup of coffee does not make its value become £2 it,

Its value is what people will pay for it. Period.

A paper bag and a Coach bag serve the same purpose. But people want nice things so they pay $300 for the Coach bag. Burberry sells their plaid scarves for $200, even though the material cost is less than $2 probably. But people will pay $200 for it.

Americans pay three times as much for "organic" broccoli that is grown on the same farm as broccoli. I have Persian friends that will only buy "name brand" jewelry. People want what they want, and they pay for it.

And I do pray that the Artists get a fair share of that price and not those that make money of them.

What's a fair share? Who gets to decide?

(Oh and no need to go into costs of production, many of those high price dvds look like they are made in someone's bedroom;))

I'd look less at the cost of production and more at the cost of LEARNING ALL THE MATERIAL that is being taught.

I know a guy who makes arrowheads. He's really good at it, and can make them very quickly. People ask him how long it takes him to make an arrow head. He says, "About 2 minutes. And 50 years." Perspective. :)

Sorry I am just disillusioned about branding pricing marketing and advertising in this world, having seen the people live in tin huts and get water out of muddy river. Unless of course it is intended for the wealthy.

I get Vogue magazine. Do you think I've ever bought a dress that cost $4000? That's the stuff advertised in Vogue. If you want to get mad at big businesses and marketing departments and media, then go ahead. But that's not what we're talking about here. IAMED is two women who love bellydance, not some corporation on the stock market.

We just should not forget that what is true and real on one side of the world is not necessarily so onb the other.

I really don't get your point here -- people live in poverty. That's tragic, it is. I feel bad with all the people in MY city who can't afford health care or homes, let alone $5 cups of coffee.

Americans aren't dripping in gold and jewels. What you see on TV isn't real. My family worked very hard for what they have. I got my first job detasseling corn at 13 years old. I will probably work until I'm 70, unless Medicare collapses completely and I have to work until I die.

But what does ANY of this have to do with the price and value of a belly dance video?

????
 

Amanda (was Aziyade)

Well-known member
Reen, I just don't understand why you jumped on Faten's video as an example of a product that is over-priced and so the producer should be considered shameful. Have you ever seen it? I'm not trying to be snarky; I'm just curious.
 

hede

New member
piracy

I believe the music industry has already been through the piracy debacle...if they had collaborated with Napster in the first place to make it fair and legal instead of sueing then a whole lot of lawyers would be much poorer :)

If the price of the dvd is more reasonable, then reasonable people are less likely to pirate...of course some always will...but I think many people are now happy to pay a small price to download a song legally on itunes or emusic or napster even if they used to illegally 'share' mp3's

FilmBaby does have a download option for many films, but as I recall it was about $12 or $13 ? and for another couple (plus postage!) I could get the dvd - so chose to buy the dvd's...had the download version been, say, $5 I would have probably downloaded. (This I think would be more inline with the difference in price between buying a cd and downloading a cd. And I would have probably downloaded more and spent the same amount in total...)

Is there any other site that has legal downloads of dvd's?
 

Amanda (was Aziyade)

Well-known member
If the price of the dvd is more reasonable, then reasonable people are less likely to pirate...

I'm not sure what the research will show, but I don't think I necessarily believe this. I've been to restaurants that sell pirated versions of Persian CDs for $9.99 -- the same CDs you can buy legally for $12.

But the piracy debate will continue. I think it's a moral issue that people need to decide for themselves. If stealing is morally okay for you, you'll be comfortable doing so. My mother, however, raised me differently. If it's worth stealing, it's worth buying.

PLUS, Morocco and other producers (Beata and Horacio most receently) have openly stated that piracy has hurt their sales so much that they will no longer produce DVDs or CDs. If you STEAL, you hurt our community. Knowledgeable people no longer distribute their knowledge. That's really sad, and all because of personal greed.

I think many people are now happy to pay a small price to download a song legally on itunes or emusic or napster even if they used to illegally 'share' mp3's

I think iTunes is wonderful -- and 99 cents for a song is a bargain. I agree with you here!

Is there any other site that has legal downloads of dvd's?

World Dance New York USED to -- I'm not sure if they still do (looks like no -- I sent Neon a message about it). HMC has been talking about it for a while but I haven't seen them actually do it yet.

That seems to be the answer for overseas consumers too. No physical product, no VAT. Right?
 

Mosaic

Super Moderator
Hi Mosaic
To me it looks like you get a link to Amazon and Film Baby when you want to buy something. How do we buy directly from Cheeky girls website?
I bought four cheeky-dvd's a while ago but I got them from Amazon as I couldn't figure out any other way. What "killed" me was the custom fee that was as much as the cost of the dvd's. So I ended up paying twice as much. :shok:

Oh dear, It seems Michelle has changed her method of purchase. I'm sorry I didn't know that. The last CD I purchased I got directly through her website. Cheeky Girl Prods use to also sell on ebay. I will see if i can find the link.

Seems I won't be buying anymore CGPs DVDs if they are only through Amazon that is way too expensive. What a shame, I think I will email her as I have her email addy and see if she can accomodate us International dnacers with a cheaper postage place.

I found this ebay store with a wide selection and only USD$5 postage for international it seems. I can;t find CGP on ebay so maybe she is selling there anymore either.

eBay Store ? A World Music Instruction Videos: Search results for.
~Mosaic
 

Mosaic

Super Moderator
By the way, I purchased from WDNY Ranya Renee's Baladi 2 CD set for USD$24.98. It is fabulous & extremely good value. Only USD$5 for International post. There is a full write up about it here:
The Baladi - Bellydance Egyptian Style 2-DVD Set : Dance : Bellydance : World Dance New York.

Sarah Skinner's Opulent Motion is another one I have, also fabulous and at USD$14.98 well worth buying plus a tiny $5 post cost.

I am very happy to recommend these 2 DVDs and WDNY as a place to buy from.

I don't believe you have to spend $40/$50 dollars for excellent DVDs. I know there have been a couple I have been interested in, but the DVD cost was just too expensive at $40+ then around USD$10 to 15 dollars postage, so I just don't buy them. I can't afford that sort of cost for a DVD, whether it be dance or anything else.
~Mosaic



 

Shanazel

Moderator
Aziyade, I think I see where Reenie is coming from, and I have a certain amount of sympathy with her view point. Mercedes Benz and $50 dvds in a world filled with starving people is indeed hard to get one's mind around- a tangent from the basic discussion here, but still as relevant as most tangents we follow.

I also understand the concept of charging whatever the market will bear. However, any market with me in it will not bear $50 dvds, no matter who makes them. :D I once bought a book on belly dance technique which was different from anything else I'd seen. It was a nice book, but quite pricey and when I saw it, I was shocked by content v. price. When I mentioned this in the thread devoted to the book review, the author seriously took exception to my viewpoint, was angry that I mentioned price/content in the review, and offered to refund my money, saying I should've contacted her personally if I wasn't happy. (The book was self-published.) I thanked her and declined her offer (caveat emptor), but it is unlikely I will buy any of her future books unless she can find a publisher to bring the costs into line with comparable books.

I see the same thing happening with dvds- if one produces them privately, they are far more expensive than those produced commercially. If someone is willing to pay the price, good for them. If someone else decides to seek equivalent content with a better price, that is fine as well. Both viewpoints have merit and can and should be expressed without incurring acrimony.

PS I had an older Mercedes once upon a time. I had a world of fun with it until repairs drove me wild economically and practically and I bought a less exotic but far more dependable Camry. ;)
 
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teela

New member
I am one of those who has paid the $50 for a video. When I lay out that much for a video, it is usually for a person that I will probably never be able to take a class with and who I know offers some material that I would like to learn. I live in the middle of nowhere and getting into a major town to take any classes or workshops is anywhere from $800 to $1500 round trip. So i see purchasing one of these more expensive DVD's from certain folks as a fairly cheap investment especially as I can use it again and again to learn things from. I also have many of the DVD's from WDNY, Cheeky Girls, etc. I'm asking myself if the DVD offers something I don't already have so i've slowed down quite abit on all DVD buying.
 
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hede

New member
I'm not sure what the research will show, but I don't think I necessarily believe this. I've been to restaurants that sell pirated versions of Persian CDs for $9.99 -- the same CDs you can buy legally for $12.

But the piracy debate will continue. I think it's a moral issue that people need to decide for themselves.

ahh - yes I wonder if some of this is cultural? not wanting to offend anyone, but some countries are known as 'one copy countries' with regards to software, music, movies...(meaning that one legal copy does for the whole country) usually these are poorer countries so that's a difficult debate. I live in Australia and my local indian shop has a wall of pirates for $10 and a (smaller) wall of originals for $40 (mostly bollywood movies of course). I asked the guy if anyone bought the originals and he said something along the lines of 'sure thing - some people want the quality and extras and menus'

edit: by cultural I also mean just the people you hang out with - if all your friends download everything through torrents it's going to shape how you think about dvd's, no matter what your income - just as napster did with music...

and if people see it as a moral issue, rather than a legal issue, they are more likely to justify piracy on the basis that the production company is profiteering anyway (clearly someone is making a profit as there are hundreds of BD dvds on amazon, if there was no money in it they wouldn't keep doing it - probably doesn't apply to private productions - ) - not taking sides or saying that is right, i have legally bought a large number of dvd's, just putting that forward as reason as why things are like that...

but back to the orginal question of buying dvd's for instruction - if you don't want to buy there are whole lot of tutorials on youtube - just get the right software to save and burn to dvd. As far as I know that's perfectly legal (unless a dvd was pirated illegally to put it on youtube in the first place - like some of the rachel brice stuff i suspect)...
 
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lizaj

New member
Aziyade, I think I see where Reenie is coming from, and I have a certain amount of sympathy with her view point. Mercedes Benz and $50 dvds in a world filled with starving people is indeed hard to get one's mind around- a tangent from the basic discussion here, but still as relevant as most tangents we follow.

I also understand the concept of charging whatever the market will bear. However, any market with me in it will not bear $50 dvds, no matter who makes them. :D I once bought a book on belly dance technique which was different from anything else I'd seen. It was a nice book, but quite pricey and when I saw it, I was shocked by content v. price. When I mentioned this in the thread devoted to the book review, the author seriously took exception to my viewpoint, was angry that I mentioned price/content in the review, and offered to refund my money, saying I should've contacted her personally if I wasn't happy. (The book was self-published.) I thanked her and declined her offer (caveat emptor), but it is unlikely I will buy any of her future books unless she can find a publisher to bring the costs into line with comparable books.

I see the same thing happening with dvds- if one produces them privately, they are far more expensive than those produced commercially. If someone is willing to pay the price, good for them. If someone else decides to seek equivalent content with a better price, that is fine as well. Both viewpoints have merit and can and should be expressed without incurring acrimony.

PS I had an older Mercedes once upon a time. I had a world of fun with it until repairs drove me wild economically and practically and I bought a less exotic but far more dependable Camry. ;)

I'm not a driver but we had a second-hand Merc 190E (it cost very little in repairs just petrol..sorry ..gas...insurance) Now we have a FordMondeo.
Tell you what you will forget the Camry as we will forget the Mondeo...you'll never forget that Merc.

If someone is a real expert and their tuition is the best and you have got the pennies, surely you'd want it. Of course often we are buying a pig in a poke. I have bought VHS in the past that were expensive after being told these were good instructors and dancers and been disappointed.
I have the irritatingly filmed Ahlan Wa Sahlan VHS from past years...very expensive and ...prized.
I used to help on a friend's antique stall...what's something worth? What you pay for it..shrug....;)
 

Jujube

New member
How are the Sadie DVDs? I've seen her Complete Bellydance Guide, which is one of the better beginner-level DVDs I've seen, but I'm looking for beyond beginner.

I have Pops Locks and Shimmies with Kaya and Sadie, Sultry Slow Moves, and Thrillin' Drillin' all on my Amazon wishlist. I find Sadie an inspirational dancer but the $40 pricetag per video makes me anxious. I am picky about DVDs and would hate to shell out that much for a DVD that I don't care for.

For those who have seen these, do they offer unique content and sufficient length to justify the cost? Is Michelle Joyce's Pop Lock and Shimmy going to give me the same content for far less money?

Any opinions or reviews highly appreciated!!
 

Amanda (was Aziyade)

Well-known member
If someone else decides to seek equivalent content with a better price, that is fine as well.


That's the key, though -- equivalent content.

I'm ALL for better prices, believe me!! I have not bought much from IAMED recently because I felt the content of many of their dvds (for my experience level) was not worth the price.

Sadie's Drills dvds was an exception for me.


I'm not really trying to be argumentative. I just think there's a certain amount of disrespect for teachers who produce high-content videos that cost more than low-content videos. I love Michelle Joyce and Neon, but neither of them has produced a cymbal dvd that can compare to the content and drills on Z-Helene's $50 volume. Just my opinion, tho.
 

Amanda (was Aziyade)

Well-known member
How are the Sadie DVDs?

Sadie is one of my favorite dvd instructors. Her Drum Solo dvds are very educational, with drills and technique instruction in addition to a choreography. I don't really dance in her style, but her dvds have been helpful to me nonetheless.

I have Pops Locks and Shimmies with Kaya and Sadie,

This was my least favorite, but only because I don't really do pops and locks. If I remember correctly there are a lot of drills on this dvd, and the instruction is very clear.

Sultry Slow Moves,

LOVE this one. Probably one of my favorites for taqsim. Lots of combos, technique, suggestions for interpreting the music. Very good for range of motion exercises too. Not a beginner dvd at all, and focuses a lot on styling, so it would probably be good for you.

Thrillin' Drillin'

LOVE this one too. It's one you can work through because the drills go from intermediate to CRAZY! lol. Once you master the first few drills, you can do the layers full time, or explore different timing inside each layer. This is a really fun dvd, and my only complaint is that the actual drill sections don't seem long enough. (But I'm used to Suhaila's 25 minute drills too.)


For those who have seen these, do they offer unique content and sufficient length to justify the cost?

Drills and Slow Moves offer unique content (to a degree -- I mean, the movements are going to be from our basic movement vocabulary, but the way she interweaves them and uses them in the music is unique.) I think both of these are 2 hours long, but you may want to check that.

Is Michelle Joyce's Pop Lock and Shimmy going to give me the same content for far less money?

Not Pop Lock and Shimmy, but her Drill dvd might -- it's not exactly an equivalent to Sadie's drill dvd though. Based on what you said about your level, I'm not sure you'd get as much value out of Pop Lock and Shimmy as you would Michelle's Drill dvd.

If you can afford it, I would recommend both drill dvds - Sadie's and Michelle's because the content is different. Michelle pretty much sticks to Suhaila style layering, and Sadie branches out a bit to different kinds of layering.
 
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