Your first class,as a male, what was it like ?

[AngelaJP]

Hi Pirika!

Haha! I don't know if there are any lesbians in school. But I don't mind at all about gays and lesbians, as long as I can dance with skills and emotion (or try hard to) and as long as they mind their own business. I never asked the people in school about this "females and gays-only" rule because I've never been affected by it but I'll ask them about it this Tuesday. Now, I'm interested what they have to say about it.

I enjoy the school because it's cheap and has many BD instructors teaching various sorts of belly dances.

I'm glad I finally saw male BD!

 

[khanjar]

I'm wondering , if female students are gay, then how many teachers accept the students?

I understand that BD is female dominated field, so if male dancers try to learn then automatically think about their sexuality as gay or something. However, why they don't care about female sexuality. I don't care about anybody's sexuality because it is not my business and I'm ok with anybody in the class. I mean if some lady is obviously homosexual, how other ladies react? Do they ask her to leave the class? Also, some lesbian ladies are not look like men, but more feminine than regular female, and maybe you can't tell her sexuality, but when you find out,they gonna kick her out?

I'm sure some ladies feel uncomfortable with lesbian people. I'm not sure why only male sexuality is big deal, and not female sexuality? Actually one of my friends felt her teacher was lesbian, and she felt the teacher was attracted her, so she didn't feel comfortable to take class, so she stop taking class. She didn't know her sexuality, but that she felt. Again, I'm ok with any people. Actually I had both gay and lesbian teachers in Jazz classes, so I have no problem with it. Sexuality is nothing related with dance talent.

Yes, this thought did occur to myself, but I neglected to mention it, as I know women who are very uncomfortable with another woman who is lesbian, and it is likely in a BD class that there might be a lady who prefers her own kind, who might because of her orientation start to hit on another lady whom she feels attracted too, it is natural. So a rule that stops men unless they ' appear ' to be gay is an insult not only to gay men but non gay men as well.

I have friends who are gay, lesbian, straight , transsexual, married and partnerless. I like these people because of the people they are, their sexuality is irrelevant in friendship as it is in dance. I have been pursued by both sexes, it does not insult me, but flatters me, a gay man does not threaten me, it is just I am not attracted, the same as I might not be attracted to a woman. Because someone is interested in you, it is not an automatic sign that you should be interested in them.

Men who are not gay in a class, any class containing a majority of women, many men, in fact all men are able to control their urges, they are not at the mercy of their sexuality, they can turn it off. Female flesh or form is not a ' go ' flag for a male, an irresistible force they cannot control. I go to a class, but I am there to learn, so the radar is off, my personal opinion, a class is where I go to learn, if I wish to date, then there are other places for that.

Perhaps it is even a misconception that men are always after women, a throw back to our ancestors maybe, a lot of us have moved on and can engage the brain cell where attraction or the possibility of attraction is concerned.

 

[Zorba]

Khanjar -

Once again - very nice, well thought out post.

 

[Maria_Aya]

In my school, they don't allow male BD students unless they're very clearly gay. Most of the women feel uncomfortable having a man around, I guess, especially that many dress up in sexy outfits.
!

Ok I really DONT GET this !!!
Unless they're very clearly gay?
:shok:
So if they are not, "very clearly" they are not allowed in the class???????

 

[AngelaJP]

Ok I really DONT GET this !!!
Unless they're very clearly gay?
:shok:
So if they are not, "very clearly" they are not allowed in the class???????

Hahaha! Yes

I forgot to ask them yesterday. Tomorrow, I will!

 

[gisela]

I think it's the older female students who aren't comfortable at all with men inside. I witnessed this once when a man went inside the class and starting dancing at the back. Many looked back at him and one student complained to the person in-charge. The man was requested to leave.

As far as I know, the husbands or boyfriends are asked to wait outside the classroom although they could still see the dancing in the class from the glass door.

This rule was probably made because of the preference of most students in my class. I'm sure that if it's okay with all the students, a male would be allowed inside.

Well I think there's a HUGE difference between a male wanting to participate in the classes and men (or women) just hanging out waiting and watching. Very few dance schools ( I think) allow friends and family to watch a class while just waiting for it to end so they can drive the student home. I would also be bothered by that. A male would not bother me if he participated on the same terms as me. I'm not sure it is even allowed in my homecountry to separate like that although I'm sure it happens someplaces, unfortunately.
ShiroiOji:
I'm also offended though I'm in the mainstream. If I encounter it I will try to speak up to do my little share.

 

[SidraK]

I think you'd find that anyone taking classes with a serious intent to learn dance is going to be more interested in finally figuring out how to layer that shimmy over a travelling undulation than in swooning over the hotness of their classmates.

 

[AngelaJP]

I finally asked the bd school secretary about not allowing men inside (except the gays). She said there are older students get self-conscious and uncomfortable so they prefer dancing without men in the room. Some older ones reasoned out also that in our country, straight men won't want to bd as they'll just get ridiculed so it is questionable why straight men would want to be in a bd class of 100% women most of the time, 99% once in a while. But that is just the point of view of some of the older women here. There are still many conservative ones around here.

I wish my partner would try one bd session with me in NZ, that is if he'll agree though. If I have very little grace, he has much less than me And I hope there are many straight men who do that there so he won't feel uncomfortable.

 

[ShiroiOji]

There's a couple of things that I need to point out here.

First off, I want to point out to you that the term "the gays" is incredibly offensive. Don't worry, I am not bothered; I am fairly certain you have no idea and all. But hearing that is something that will more likely than not get you told off by a lot of gay people.

The other thing is that you talk about women being self-conscious in front of straight men but not gay men. Do these women not realize that gay men pay MORE attention to women's flaws than straight men do? While not all, many gay men pick up on a lot more about women than our straight counterparts, thus we're always complimenting a woman's hair, shoes, purse, whatever, and helping out with all things aesthetic. Just food for thought.

Another thing: who wasn't terrified of being ridiculed their first day coming to a dance studio? And the women think that the best way to deal with this issue is to ban all men? That's just messed up and devoid of logic.

Please note, Angela, none of what I said here reflects on you; I simply disagree with your teacher/fellow students, and I think you seem totally sweet and all, so please don't feel like I am knocking you down and jumping up and down on your chest or anything.

 

[AngelaJP]

Oh ShiroiOji, I'm sorry if I offended you and anyone here for using the term "gays". I thought this was the most acceptable than the other terms I know but I obviously thought wrong. What term is most appropriate and acceptable?

Don't worry, I know you're not knocking me down, hahaha! I really appreciate you sharing your thoughts about this. Your opinions, as well as of our bd siblings here, have given me valuable insight about how this is viewed by people from other countries. It makes me learn. I am not surprised at the reactions though as I am aware of the backward/too conservative way of thinking of other people in my country and I myself have experienced conflicts because of those. Would you believe our powerful Catholic church here decries our government's support of contraception? (off-topic) But fortunately, there are also many of my countrymen who have adapted to the times, mostly the younger generation and just a bit of the older.

Other ladies are definitely more comfortable being with "gay" men in class than with straight ones which is obviously the main reason why the school agreed to the request of some students that straights should not be allowed.

It has been one month since I mentioned here that I'll ask my bd school in-charge the reason for not allowing straight men inside the class but I only was able to ask the secretary about it this week, I always forgot - the problem of getting younger but more forgetful, hehe...

Cheers!

Angela

There's a couple of things that I need to point out here.

First off, I want to point out to you that the term "the gays" is incredibly offensive. Don't worry, I am not bothered; I am fairly certain you have no idea and all. But hearing that is something that will more likely than not get you told off by a lot of gay people.

The other thing is that you talk about women being self-conscious in front of straight men but not gay men. Do these women not realize that gay men pay MORE attention to women's flaws than straight men do? While not all, many gay men pick up on a lot more about women than our straight counterparts, thus we're always complimenting a woman's hair, shoes, purse, whatever, and helping out with all things aesthetic. Just food for thought.

Another thing: who wasn't terrified of being ridiculed their first day coming to a dance studio? And the women think that the best way to deal with this issue is to ban all men? That's just messed up and devoid of logic.

Please note, Angela, none of what I said here reflects on you; I simply disagree with your teacher/fellow students, and I think you seem totally sweet and all, so please don't feel like I am knocking you down and jumping up and down on your chest or anything.

 

[AngelaJP]

Another thing: who wasn't terrified of being ridiculed their first day coming to a dance studio? And the women think that the best way to deal with this issue is to ban all men? That's just messed up and devoid of logic.

About the ridicule topic. I meant that the other ladies reasoned this - Straight men who BD will most usually be ridiculed by others (not necessarily the students) so what other reason would a straight man have to join BD? I don't know if I explained this well in the English language so I don't know if I have relayed the school secretary's message well , hahaha! Not all women in my class feel strongly about straights being in the class, just some of the older ones who have been there much longer than me.

 

[ShiroiOji]

Hey Angela. Just so you know, there is a huge, albeit subtle, difference in using "gay people" rather than "the gays." I guess the difference could be compared to saying "the coloureds" rather than "people of colour." While the difference may come across as ever so slight, it is a huge one to those of us whom it affects. ^_^

And I knew you didn't intend to come across all offensive, so no worries. I wasn't personally offended at all. I just wanted to point it out to you so you wouldn't get the riot act from someone who became offended. We had a woman from the Czech Republic in my Sociology of Homosexuality class who used to say "the gays" all the time, and one of my fellow classmates went off on her one day for it! :shok:

 

[AngelaJP]

Hahaha, I don't want a riot because of what I said! Okay, I know what you mean now. Thank you so much for pointing it out, ShiroiOji My apologies.

Hey Angela. Just so you know, there is a huge, albeit subtle, difference in using "gay people" rather than "the gays." I guess the difference could be compared to saying "the coloureds" rather than "people of colour." While the difference may come across as ever so slight, it is a huge one to those of us whom it affects. ^_^

And I knew you didn't intend to come across all offensive, so no worries. I wasn't personally offended at all. I just wanted to point it out to you so you wouldn't get the riot act from someone who became offended. We had a woman from the Czech Republic in my Sociology of Homosexuality class who used to say "the gays" all the time, and one of my fellow classmates went off on her one day for it! :shok:

 

[Sita]

I'm sorry this is off topic but I've been wondering; would these people who refuse to teach men also refuse to recieve instruction, do a workshop with a major professional male belly dancer or see them perform?
how far does this segregation go?
come to think of it I don't know if anyone here could answer this question not really being examples of these practitioners. But it seems to me that more and more workshops and seminars are avaliable from professional male dancers (I myself along with all my class and teachers have been to one). And in the UK for many of us these major workshop events are rare; do we have the resources to keep up a prejudiced view in the belly dance community? or is it okay to be taught but not to teach men?
just wondering out loud to myself.... :think:

Sita

 

[jenc]

Hi dita how was Jim Boz. I didn't get there in the end - forgot to post my cheque and lost my place. Seriously, did you feel a difference in being taught by a man?

 

[AngelaJP]

I'm sorry this is off topic but I've been wondering; would these people who refuse to teach men also refuse to recieve instruction, do a workshop with a major professional male belly dancer or see them perform?
Sita

I'd love to be taught by a man again and I'm intrigued how it's like since I only tried it once for 45minutes during a belly dance festival, not really a serious class that time. It was different, more hopping or whatever you call that move. Sita, what are the differences between being taught by a man and a woman?

So far, I haven't encountered any female teachers refusing to teach men here. There are some female students here who don't want to have male students around, except if the men are gay. It's very rare though. 99.8% of the time, my classmates were always women.

 

[Pirika Repun]

Do you think this is culture thing? I think many Asian culture have some idea of any kind form of dancer is kind of effeminate in the society? That's why especially older people in the society think about straight man dance not only Oriental Dance, but Ballet, Jazz and other dances as well? I think still many societies in the world have idea of male is macho or masculine and female as feminine image, so maybe that's why these older people can not accept the reality of maybe straight men want to try this form of dance. Also, not all gay people are interested in dance. I have many gay friends, and not all of them interested in Oriental dance even though they said sexy. What do you think?

 

[Sita]

He was lovely and brilliant; I had so much fun and learnt a lot. I'm sorry you weren't able to get there. I can't say I felt there was any major difference apart from personality. He was lots of fun and made us all relax. He also made us feel good about being women and did kind of encourage us to have attitude in our movement. Kind of made us open up more and think about our genral prescence when performing. I think that was the only difference maybe prehaps as an all women class we kind of overlook these elements, take our feminity for granted. However this could just be his teaching style and nothing to do with his gender. I need to have more male teachers to truly know lol What are everyones else's experiences of having a male teacher did they notice a difference?

When he performed for us at the end of the day he encouraged some women to come out and dance with him (he seems v. aware of his students - in the fact that he picked out ones who were shy or lacked confidence and encouraged them to come out of their shell more though not in a pushy way). He even picked out a man who was a family member of a dancer - and he got up and danced very well for a complete beginner - he must have picked it up from his family He really made it feel like a celebration of life and that we were all involved in his performance even if it meant just clapping to the beat. All the women he danced with regardless of their ability danced beautifully to the music - I think the shock of getting out there and having no choreography made them just respond to the music alone - truly producing some wonderful dancing

Pirika: I agree; I think in many places around the world (though not all) in various different cultures; certain dances have formed in peoples minds as being for either men or for women. Almost like men should only do strong, powerful jumpy movements and women only delicate, light, twirly movement. And in some peoples mind this is deeply entrenched; so they need a reason as to why someone would cross this distinction i.e he must be gay. Even one of the women in my class said when she told her husband she was going to see a male dancer he replied the dancer was gay - to him that was the only explanation. The same could be applied to a girl in the UK being obessed with rugby or footie - for many people they must be lesbians! Those are my thoughts anyway.

Sita

 

[Zorba]

Even one of the women in my class said when she told her husband she was going to see a male dancer he replied the dancer was gay - to him that was the only explanation.

I have to chuckle at this...

The number of times this has happened to me under one circumstance or another! "You're *MARRIED*"?!! was the reaction of one dance sister. Another time, I was approached by several guys after a performance, apparently gay themselves (I don't have good "gaydar"), who were flabberghasted that I was straight. Whatever - I think its more of a confidence thing. Gays know who/what they are - most straights aren't sure...

 

[AngelaJP]

Do you think this is culture thing? I think many Asian culture have some idea of any kind form of dancer is kind of effeminate in the society? That's why especially older people in the society think about straight man dance not only Oriental Dance, but Ballet, Jazz and other dances as well? I think still many societies in the world have idea of male is macho or masculine and female as feminine image, so maybe that's why these older people can not accept the reality of maybe straight men want to try this form of dance. Also, not all gay people are interested in dance. I have many gay friends, and not all of them interested in Oriental dance even though they said sexy. What do you think?

I think it's probably a cultural or religious thing in my country. We used to have a very patriarchal society here but slowly the women have gained voices and are able to do and accomplish things that society used to only accept as men's jobs or hobbies. There are men's jobs and hobbies separate from the women's jobs and hobbies. There are still older people who believe in the patriarchal practice but not as much as before. Heck, I used to be scolded by older relatives about engaging in predominantly male sports but I didn't care as long as I enjoyed and my adrenaline cravings were satisfied.

It's a misconception that only gay men into dancing professionally. We have tons of professional dancers especially in Dancesport/Latin/Ballroom dancing. It's very big here. I don't know if there are straight male professional dancers here but I am sure there are. I know some straight men who have dancing as a hobby though, not professional.