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  1. #1
    Administrator Salome's Avatar
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    Default Posting copyrighted material

    I received an email today from someone who reported a thread that contained video clip downloads of DVD's, perhaps in entirety, of various Russian dancers made by one of our members.

    I deleted the thread and thought that it might be a good time to go over this topic again, since we have many new members etc.

    Members can post copyrighted works under the fair use law, which says the following: "The fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright".

    This IS a discussion forum and members DO criticize, learn, comment, report, educate etc. here and are not restricted to work only in the public domain. At the same time the above should be observed and not abused as a loophole.

    Posting an excerpt of a copyrighted article in a thread? Ok.
    Copying and pasting someone's entire archive of articles in a thread? Not ok.

    Uploading an entire CD on the forum? Not ok.
    Uploading a song for the purpose of song translation, country of origin question etc. etc. Ok.

    Let common sense guide you.

  2. #2
    V.I.P. Aisha Azar's Avatar
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    Default Copyright

    Dear Salome,
    ASCAP has made it crystal clear that it IS an infringement of copyright to use their music for teaching. They do not consider it fair use and will take steps to have you pay them money to use any materials that they have copyrighted, according to letter that the studio where I each has received from them.
    Regards,
    A'isha

  3. #3
    Administrator Salome's Avatar
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    Default

    Hi Aisha,

    good to know. I should note that I'm not advising anyone about what is and is not within fair use in their own classroom, performance, DVD etc. I am focused here on these forums, with the quote from the copyright.gov fair use fact sheet. In the past, if the owner of a picture etc. asked us to remove it from the forum we did and would do again in the future.

    Confidential to the person who reported the thread: I emailed a response to you, however the email was returned undeliverable...
    Last edited by Salome; 08-08-2008 at 07:24 AM.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Samira_dncr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aisha Azar View Post
    ASCAP has made it crystal clear that it IS an infringement of copyright to use their music for teaching. They do not consider it fair use and will take steps to have you pay them money to use any materials that they have copyrighted, according to letter that the studio where I each has received from them.
    I think that there is a difference if you are using music to profit from teaching (such as running a studio) vs having an online discussion about a piece of music or using it in the public school system. The "Educational System" doesn't necessarily mean a private for-profit dance studio.

    I was an owner of a franchised dance studio, and we had to purchase music rights from BMI, ASCAP, and ...oh, I can't remember the other name. Anyway...we had to have all three.

    Although, it really is best to err on the side of caution. I also think the fair use law takes into consideration the length of time of the audio clip. Using a short section is different than using the entire song.

    I'm not an expert, so don't quote me on any of the above. LOL. Just throwing out additional information....

  5. #5
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    Question Tell me more.....

    This is very interesting.

    It would seem to use any music at any time for any public purpose would mean that the license is necessary.

    While I don't begrudge the fact that they have the right to be paid for their work, I am a little confused.

    Does that mean that if I put on a gratis show at the local nursing home, we can get into trouble?

    Does this mean that students from smaller teachers (ie: non-studio) who go to workshops and perform, they could get into trouble? What about a recital for family to show off what the students have learned, such as in a child’s class?

    What about all those YouTube performers? We know some of them have not paid any fees.

    On another note, do you need permission for each and every song you use to perform/teach, or is there a blanket fee from one company or artist that will cover all their produced materials?

    What are the fees? Is there a 'standard' rate, or does it vary from one artist to another?

    This is a topic that I have been pondering for a while, but really didn't know where to get the answers. I am a big believer in purchasing music, mostly because if I like the music, I want the artist to make more, and they won’t do that if they don’t make enough money....

    Thanks!!

  6. #6
    V.I.P. Aisha Azar's Avatar
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    Default Copyright

    Responses below

    Quote Originally Posted by Jet Phoenix View Post
    This is very interesting.

    It would seem to use any music at any time for any public purpose would mean that the license is necessary.

    While I don't begrudge the fact that they have the right to be paid for their work, I am a little confused.

    Does that mean that if I put on a gratis show at the local nursing home, we can get into trouble?

    Does this mean that students from smaller teachers (ie: non-studio) who go to workshops and perform, they could get into trouble? What about a recital for family to show off what the students have learned, such as in a child’s class?



    Dear Phoenix,
    Fair Use, generally means things like, you can make a copy of something for your own personal use, not to give to anyone else or to in any way make money from. If you are using someone's music in a free nursing home show for example, you are supposed to obtain permission from whoever owns the copyright. This may or may not be the originator of the music, or book or whatever. In legal theory, you own whatever you have produced and it is automatically copyrighted. This is actually just a ruse of some kind because in order for an artist to have legal protection, they must register their creations s copyrighted and this, of course costs $$. Sometimes not all that much if you can copyright a bunch of stuff in one batch.

    Yes, you can get into trouble performing to someone's music in a show, unless they or you have permission to use the music, also this is true of any video for sale as well.

    What about all those YouTube performers? We know some of them have not paid any fees.
    I have often wondered about that myself.....

    On another note, do you need permission for each and every song you use to perform/teach, or is there a blanket fee from one company or artist that will cover all their produced materials?
    There is a blanket fee in some cases, such as if you work with music owned by ASCAP or BMI. Then there are companies like Pirhana, with whom you must negotiate separately.

    What are the fees? Is there a 'standard' rate, or does it vary from one artist to another?
    I depends on what kind of permission you are buying and from whom. I once declined to use some music because the company who owns it wanted to charge me $1,000 to use 3 minutes worth of music.

    This is a topic that I have been pondering for a while, but really didn't know where to get the answers. I am a big believer in purchasing music, mostly because if I like the music, I want the artist to make more, and they won’t do that if they don’t make enough money....
    Sometimes the artist does not get more anyway. Large companies have been known to go in a legally copyright music that does not ethically or morally belong to them. the originator of the music might be living in a hole in the round while that company makes a good deal of profit off the music. NPR had a very informative radio program about this a couple of years ago.

    Regards,
    A'isha

    Thanks!!

  7. #7
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    Thanks, A'isha.

    How did you go about getting permission to use the songs you used? I know most CDs state who produced them. Perhaps this is where to start?

    I would like to hear the process that you went through, if you have an example.

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    V.I.P. Reen.Blom's Avatar
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    Gosh sometimes I think it all gets WAAAy too much.... soon you gonna have to get permission to listen it in your own home--- shhhhh neighbours might hear it....

    I understand about making money of it, like using for DVD or production that actually creates copies of it.... but a permission for a charity show or a student performance???

    I would REALLY want to know if all those ME singers and musicians get their "share"? Something makes me doubt that... And What about compillation discs?


    I am just curious....

  9. #9
    V.I.P. Aisha Azar's Avatar
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    Default Copyright

    Quote Originally Posted by Jet Phoenix View Post
    Thanks, A'isha.

    How did you go about getting permission to use the songs you used? I know most CDs state who produced them. Perhaps this is where to start?

    I would like to hear the process that you went through, if you have an example.

    Dear Jet Phoenix,
    After contacting several different companies and people about using their music, I was just about to make a decision, though I really was not too happy about it. I happened one day to be going through my music and I found a copy of Leyla Lanty's "Golden Days Enchanting Nights". I like Leyla very much and after some thought, I decided to approach her to see if we could make a deal with me using her music for my DVD. We communicated about it, I offered her a price and she accepted. We did the legal paperwork, and then I made the DVD and she got the first one in the box sent off to her. She liked it, thought the movement plan was good, liked the way I used her music , etc. It worked out beautifully. I was fortunate to discover that I had that music, and to work with Leyla because she is a genuinely nice human being. Several people who have the DVD have also written to say how nice it is the the info for purchasing the music is easy to find on the DVD cover as well.
    Regards,
    A'isha

  10. #10
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    Thanks, Aisha! This is something I have been wondering about for some time.

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