Belly Dance and Flameco !!

[scrable]

Is there any relationship between BD and Flameco??
I just wonder because my teacher teaches both of these dances.
Does Flameco help us better frame?

 

[Sita]

I have to say I did a flamenco workshop and while I loved it I wouldn't have said it was naturally compatible with bellydance - a completly different approach and feel; not to mention the posture is different they stick the bum out into more of a sitting pose. That is not to say you could'nt do both dances well - I enjoyed the workshop but its harder and used the feet(tapping more). The arms are probually good for ATS but I would have thought them a bit too angular for BD. However this is only my oppinion and I only did one workshop prehaps it would be more compatible with Tribal Fusion - I know some do skirt work and have flamenco influences - I have even come accross Belly dance/flamenco fusions online although how much of a fusion and how they actually fused it I'm unsure of.

Relationship wise there is N. African Arab/Islamic influence to Flamenco via the Moors and also a major romany/gypsy influence and the Romany havasi has a influence on Turkish bellydance. Although I a sure there are more informed and knowledgable people on the site who could explain (and prehaps correct me ) better.

Sita

 

[Kashmir]

I organized a flamenco teacher to take some classes when we were doing a flamenco/belly dance fusion piece (choreographed by somebody else). Apart from the fact that the Arabs occupied Spain some hundreds of years back ,there is little or no overlap. Hips, feet, arms all completely different.

 

[jenc]

Yes I was surprised recently when watching a flamenco dancer. After all the stuff I'd heard about the similarities and the Moors occupying Spain and nifluencing the dance style. It was all guff! However, the DIFFERENCES are what make it a lovely fusion. you can replace percussive feet with percussive hips, add flourishes etc. And the fusion music is lovley.
I have just bought Hossam Ramzy's Latin American Music for Egyptian Dancers (possibly not exact title, and it's like Cairo lift music (I imagine) It was £3 in a sale. I should have known by the titles "La Bamba, La Cucaracha and Guantanmero!!!

 

[Phoebedances]

I've taken both and while the posture may be different in Flamenco, I do think that the arms and the awareness of space in using arms and hands does provide a very good benefit in bellydance. In addition, Some of the movements - guestures do translate well into bellydance music which has a gypsy/spanish influence and I've learned some lovely fusion pieces over the years.

the trick with a good fusion piece is to carefully mix in a few elements of one style into a piece that is mostly the other, I think. The music needs to be the guide as usual in how this is interpreted.

 

[Bellydance Oz]

not to mention the posture is different they stick the bum out into more of a sitting pose.

Whoever was running that workshop was a bad flamenco teacher! In flamenco, the chest is held very high so there's a temptation to stick your bum out as well - but it's bad technique (and will kill your back eventually).

I'm a former flamenco performer. I agree it's hard to see much overlap between belly dance and modern flamenco, but if you go back to the gitana (gypsy) style, you can see a strong belly dance influence IMO. A gypsy flamenca will use her body and swing her hips, unlike modern Madrid-trained dancers who have quite rigid bodies unless they're doing a back bend.

I find veil work easy because it's almost the same as dancing with a shawl in flamenco - the movements are different because the veil is light compared to a heavy shawl, that's all. And look at castanets vs zills!

The arm positions are very similar, except that belly dancing has a soft line where flamenco is more angular.

I think the main reason the two styles lend themselves to fusion is the overlap in the music. Traditional flamenco has a very Arabic sound to it, so it's often possible to dance either style to the same music.

 

[Sita]

Thank you for the correction. Although the fault may be mine rather than the teacher - as it was while a go and I may have described it wrong.
Nevertheless I will remember what you have said if I decide to continue taking flamenco (the opportunity has come up recently, with I have to add a different teacher ).

Sita

 

[Bellydance Oz]

Good luck with your flamenco if you decide to continue, Sita.

I must say, I never intended to give up flamenco when I began belly dancing - but after the free movement of belly dance, I found flamenco too frustratingly rigid. Trouble is I'm getting old - I like the old gitana style with lots of body movement, but these days it's all about the footwork.

 

[LLAIMA]

Hi all,
My opinion:
Although Middle eastern music influence is clearly heard in flamenco and they both fusion very well, Flamenco Dance and Belly dancing have very different types of energy.
About Zambra:
I had asked Flamenco Profesionals from Spain and the word zambra is referred to them as music or dance of Moorish influence Zambra also could be a party with noise. The true Zambra (as folkloric dance) has vanished with time, however if you look up Zambra on youtube, you will see how flamenco professionals perform Zambra...enything else should be Tagged as Zambra fantasy.

 

[Nur Al Leyali]

I disagree you could do both flMENCO AND BELLY DANCE WELL you would have a great time also .... flamenco is so dramatic and prized by spain and being that i half spanish lol i am not a lil bi-est but i love it and iv seen it mixed so well with belly dancing the fusion of to extremes is complete and totally beautiful i learned flameco when i was 13 and i know its different and difficult for the foot work and it could be said that its a serious dance but if u fuse it with belly dance it becomes romantic..... And awe insiring im going to look it up on youtube and post it for you guys because you need to see a proffesional fusion you would be suprised ow your audience loves it and how arabs love it lol .... They couldnt be moe pleased with something more different in dance fused together and there definantly is a connection that could help in belly dance arms.... but not posture ... and flemenco would hlp in the energy part of belly dance for sure .... you need lots of energy to do flamenco .. its very fast and hard and the moves are stiff and muscular ... It would be awesome to add to your arsenal of dance lol .

 

[LLAIMA]

Hi every one, I couldn't be very elaborated on my prev post, (I was in a rush).

To finish the Idea, I have seen many, many, many videos on youtube of people that teach " Belly dance and Flamenco Fusion" and they market it every where. For the trained eyes it is clear that this people have not taken the time to study both discipline separtetly, this performances look very amateurish and it is obviously they only took a flamenco workshop and that was enough to start teaching the fusion. In my opinion the oriental aspect of flamenco is already in its core, and I know that many professional flamenco dancers use the oriental dance energy to soften their frame a little without loosing the flamenco lines and spirits, the blend is so subtle just like when you taste a delicious gourmet dish and you can't quite separate the ingredients because they have been perfectly blended, and that does not take thinking and planning, but is does take indulgement in what flamenco and oriental dance is all about, but most of all it takes "Talent".

Hi nour al leyali, what is your take on Zambra?

 

[Bellydance Oz]

To finish the Idea, I have seen many, many, many videos on youtube of people that teach " Belly dance and Flamenco Fusion" and they market it every where. For the trained eyes it is clear that this people have not taken the time to study both discipline separtetly, this performances look very amateurish and it is obviously they only took a flamenco workshop and that was enough to start teaching the fusion.

I agree! One of our local belly dance performers has a fan dance routine, which uses Latin music and I think is meant to have a flamenco attitude (actually the music is more like tango, but tango dancers don't use fans...). I cringe when I watch it!

 

[Bellydance Oz]

I organized a flamenco teacher to take some classes when we were doing a flamenco/belly dance fusion piece (choreographed by somebody else). Apart from the fact that the Arabs occupied Spain some hundreds of years back ,there is little or no overlap. Hips, feet, arms all completely different.

It depends very much on what style of flamenco she was into.

If she was a modern flamenca trained in the Madrid style, then I agree - nothing like belly dance. If she was a true gypsy from Andalucia, you would have seen many more similarities.

 

[Marie Safira]

These styles are sure different, but no one prevented human nature from mixing things, thus giving birth to new styles and trends.
Tribal style - originally is a mixture of both, it`s not a secret.

Though there can be purposeful mixtures for performance, defined by the music and the audience.

This is a worthy example:
Bagiradance - øêîëà âîñòî÷íûõ òàíöåâ è òàíöà æèâîòà Ãàëèíû Øèøêèíîé
(VIDEO 8)