Gothic Belly dance
- Thread starter Sara
- Start date
Ahh.. Buna ziuah!My family are Romanian Romany, and the other English.
Thanks for the links, they're really helpful!
Good luck with your performances, and (DEJA VU!) thanks so much for explaining to me. I'm hopeless at trying to understand somethings.
You are so very welcome Sara I think it is better to inform someone about knowledge . Then to find fault and a biased comment about something someone knows very little or nothing about it.
Ask the Gothic dancers what GOTHIC DANCE is? We will explain it. For traditional dancers who do not think or dance outside of the box they do not have a clue. Just like anyone who doesnt understand what they do not know.
I ,also like Taleetha do Traditional dance as well as GOTHIC style. It is the whole thing about being a professional you can dance to any music or style. If your a real dancer all you need to do is feel the rhythm and the beat.
I have to go but I just needed to explain things correctly as there were to many posts from persons unknowing the true meaning of GOTHIC BELLY DANCE.
Have a great week!!! Nice meeting you Sarah
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Hmm it is somthing I been meaning to defy as most Gothic dancers call themselves tribal. Well Gothic is Gothic music Tribal is more fusion style of percusion and other instruments. Think of tribes from Africa or other countries there is a lot of different music enfluences.
Gothic dance can be moody, sensual ambient music some with percusionbeats like Govinda, Dead can dance, Corvus corax ect....
after the next 6 months of dance training hard I will be starting Gothic Ethno-Fusion as well as Egyptian basic moves classes. I am going for dance certification. So to the one who said Gothic Belly dance is not ME dance I say get your facts straight .
Sara here check out this site this very page will break it all down for you.
http://meddevi.com/gothicbellydance/defined/
phoenixavathar
New member
Too happy to be goth?
I wasn't going to reply here, but since I feel the need to stick up for myself, I just had to do it...sorry.
I am the dancer in one of the youtube.com videos that was posted as not really being gothic bellydance due to my perkiness?
Anyway, a request was made for some "real" gothic bellydance videos...
Here's a video of my troupe at a goth club (choreographed by me...I'm in the front...hopefully not smiling too much this time).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjwzrOgEXgQ
PS Yeah...I'm a pretty happy goth who actually enjoys life and dancing...which brings out a more perky part of myself. And yes...gothic bellydancing DOES exist.
I wasn't going to reply here, but since I feel the need to stick up for myself, I just had to do it...sorry.
I am the dancer in one of the youtube.com videos that was posted as not really being gothic bellydance due to my perkiness?
Anyway, a request was made for some "real" gothic bellydance videos...
Here's a video of my troupe at a goth club (choreographed by me...I'm in the front...hopefully not smiling too much this time
). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjwzrOgEXgQ
PS Yeah...I'm a pretty happy goth who actually enjoys life and dancing...which brings out a more perky part of myself. And yes...gothic bellydancing DOES exist.
Moon
New member
Hi Phoenixavathar. I must say I liked your video, but because I'm rather ignorant at the area of gothic bellydance and was not sure if it actually was gothic bellydance, I posted your video here and asked what the others thought about it.phoenixavathar said:
Please don't feel too offended. If you don't like your video being here, I'll remove it. I'm glad you and the other gothic bellydancers are willing to brighten our knowledge about your dance style.
Aniseteph
New member
Just try saying that on other threads on this forum....
(sorry all, feeling a bit combat-weary. Or Reasoned-debate-weary. Drop in on the Cultural Appreciation thread on Other Dance styles sometime and join me
)Seriously Phoenixavathar, you stick up for yourself. I liked the clip Moon posted, and the smiliness. The world needs more smiley dancers, whatever style they are into.
A xxx
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Recnadocir
New member
Another take on the general Gothic movement in art: Gothic was the apotheosis, the high or the low point, depending on your perspective, of the Romantic Period in literature, a period which dominated the 19th Century (Bronte, Dickens, Flaubert, Hawthorne, Hugo, etc.) and, I would argue, is still very much alive today. In literature the Gothic stars were Poe and Stoker, Shelly and Baudelaire and Rimbaud, and I think there are even passages in Wuthering Heights that are strikingly Gothic, particularly in Heathcliff's haunting by Katherine.
One of the best examples of the Gothic in literature today might be found in the "graphic novels." The movement in music is well documented, and in film has been exemplified by Edward Scissorhands, Interview with the Vampire, The Others, "Bram Stoker's Dracula," etc.
In general, while Gothic might superficially seem to celebrate death and decay, I think it is more a sense of fatalism that drives Gothic writing, death and decay as the inevitable flip side of life and growth. Gothic shares with the Romantic Period an emphasis on humanity's relationship with nature, an anthropomorphism of natural forces, and the struggle for individual expression in an uncaring or mechanised world. Romantic music is most often characterized as subjective, experimental yet still melodic, and perhaps there are echoes of this in well constructed Gothic belly dance; it is subjective, open to interpretation, and can be wildly experimental, but it is still "melodic" in that it follows the form of its parent art, "traditional" belly dance.
One of the best examples of the Gothic in literature today might be found in the "graphic novels." The movement in music is well documented, and in film has been exemplified by Edward Scissorhands, Interview with the Vampire, The Others, "Bram Stoker's Dracula," etc.
In general, while Gothic might superficially seem to celebrate death and decay, I think it is more a sense of fatalism that drives Gothic writing, death and decay as the inevitable flip side of life and growth. Gothic shares with the Romantic Period an emphasis on humanity's relationship with nature, an anthropomorphism of natural forces, and the struggle for individual expression in an uncaring or mechanised world. Romantic music is most often characterized as subjective, experimental yet still melodic, and perhaps there are echoes of this in well constructed Gothic belly dance; it is subjective, open to interpretation, and can be wildly experimental, but it is still "melodic" in that it follows the form of its parent art, "traditional" belly dance.
I wasn't going to reply here, but since I feel the need to stick up for myself, I just had to do it...sorry.
I am the dancer in one of the youtube.com videos that was posted as not really being gothic bellydance due to my perkiness?
Anyway, a request was made for some "real" gothic bellydance videos...
Here's a video of my troupe at a goth club (choreographed by me...I'm in the front...hopefully not smiling too much this time
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjwzrOgEXgQ
PS Yeah...I'm a pretty happy goth who actually enjoys life and dancing...which brings out a more perky part of myself. And yes...gothic bellydancing DOES exist.
Yay I am so glad someone else came forth do yiu believe the crap they wrote about Gothic dancers? YAY!!!! yes !!!
Hello all...wow, apparently, you ask long enough, and you get what you wish for--in this case, the Gothic and Experimentalist bellydancers flooding this networking site.
I'm am one of said dancers, the Zan Asha that Jeffrey was gracious enough to mention at the beginning of the small stream of those who have seen, supported, or are gothic and/or experimentalist dancers. Normally, I stay away from bhuz or oriental dancer because, frankly...as one previous poster mentions:
>>Just try saying that on other threads on this forum....
(sorry all, feeling a bit combat-weary. Or Reasoned-debate-weary. Drop in on the Cultural Appreciation thread on Other Dance styles sometime and join me )
But, because there seems to be genuine curiosity, I'll throw in my two cents, to add onto the well put summations by Desideria and Phoenix. I should probably start off by mentioning I am part Egyptian and have been doing what most would call traditional folkloric, and American cabaret for 7 years before I fled to create the experimental and gothic bellydance scene in New York. Partly because I came from more of a theatrical background, partly because I believed in the gothic ethos, and ALSO because of the blatant cattiness and judgemental attitudes of some of the dancers around me...did I flee.
I find that these attitudes continue around me...not so much from within the very tiny experimental/tribal/gothic (i.e. those considered "outside the box" by the so called purists) bit by those who persist in judging something they do not know.
This is strictly my take on gothic bellydance...I speak mostly for myself, and from what I have seen from other dancers. Please note that I am not trying to upset, judge or rub anyone the wrong way, I am just speaking my truth:
Gothic bellydance is a subculture within the bellydance subculture that initially began with the commonality that gothic sentiment mimics much of bellydance sentiment...by this I mean, much of the music seemed dark, mysterious, sensual, and ancient. By turns, both goths and bellydancers seemed to love luxurient, shiny fabrics, wearing them in interesting ways, and wearing makeup in intersting ways....so began the slow melding of the styles.
While I have seen several gothic bellydancers that are trained in Tribal, I would not use that as a hard and fast rule: Our dancers come from various backgrounds, predominantly AmCab style, not tribal. The difference with Tribal and Gothic Bellydancers is that Tribal dancers have a set vocabulary, as first laid down by the founder of American Tribal Style, Carolina Nericcio, while Gothic bellydance employs a heavy fusion of many styles, some not even bellydance so, YES, I will happily and openly concede that Gothic Bellydance, in some ways, is not bellydance....at least not totally, in my opinion. BUT...this is not everyone's opinion and further, many gothic bellydancers aren't overtly concerned about "authenticity"....the name of this game is about being unique, to exude emotion, to exude style, to exude theatrics, dance and mosty to NOT fit in the box. So, any sort of huffing and puffing about it not being this or that is really in vain, because gothic bellydance means to be more than what already exists.
As to music: there tends to be a heavy mix of actual goth/punk music used, as well as ethnic and ancient beats. I have head dancers dance to music by Solace, Dead Can Dance, Souxsie and the Banshees, Type O Negative, Rob Zombie, Marilyn Manson, Vas....and yes, even older standards, Rai, or Shaabi (I am still waiting to see something done to Leylet Hob, though).....
And as to the small stereotypical comments about the goth subculture..I find it rather interesting that a group of people that have to fight off stereotyping of their genre of dance (i.e. bellydance is not stripping, etc) would be so quick to utilize stereotypes. Above all, realize that we are doing what we do because we LOVE dancing. We are not here to purposely hurt, belittle or make fun of anyone's sensibilities or dance styles. No one is here to purposely do anything against another, or wrong another or offend another. We are all here to dance what our hearts tell us....I find many people are too busy being RIGHT, pointing out that they are the end all authority.....I wonder if this somehow makes them feel better and, if so, what feels wrong with them at the moment that they need to do such things. But, again, that's my two cents. In this vein, I can say I love the beauty of bellydance, in all its forms, and respect all of its dancers...it's the unpleasantness of some attitudes that makes me grumpy.
Thanks,
Zan Asha
www.chovexani.com
I'm am one of said dancers, the Zan Asha that Jeffrey was gracious enough to mention at the beginning of the small stream of those who have seen, supported, or are gothic and/or experimentalist dancers. Normally, I stay away from bhuz or oriental dancer because, frankly...as one previous poster mentions:
>>Just try saying that on other threads on this forum....
(sorry all, feeling a bit combat-weary. Or Reasoned-debate-weary. Drop in on the Cultural Appreciation thread on Other Dance styles sometime and join me )
But, because there seems to be genuine curiosity, I'll throw in my two cents, to add onto the well put summations by Desideria and Phoenix. I should probably start off by mentioning I am part Egyptian and have been doing what most would call traditional folkloric, and American cabaret for 7 years before I fled to create the experimental and gothic bellydance scene in New York. Partly because I came from more of a theatrical background, partly because I believed in the gothic ethos, and ALSO because of the blatant cattiness and judgemental attitudes of some of the dancers around me...did I flee.
I find that these attitudes continue around me...not so much from within the very tiny experimental/tribal/gothic (i.e. those considered "outside the box" by the so called purists) bit by those who persist in judging something they do not know.
This is strictly my take on gothic bellydance...I speak mostly for myself, and from what I have seen from other dancers. Please note that I am not trying to upset, judge or rub anyone the wrong way, I am just speaking my truth:
Gothic bellydance is a subculture within the bellydance subculture that initially began with the commonality that gothic sentiment mimics much of bellydance sentiment...by this I mean, much of the music seemed dark, mysterious, sensual, and ancient. By turns, both goths and bellydancers seemed to love luxurient, shiny fabrics, wearing them in interesting ways, and wearing makeup in intersting ways....so began the slow melding of the styles.
While I have seen several gothic bellydancers that are trained in Tribal, I would not use that as a hard and fast rule: Our dancers come from various backgrounds, predominantly AmCab style, not tribal. The difference with Tribal and Gothic Bellydancers is that Tribal dancers have a set vocabulary, as first laid down by the founder of American Tribal Style, Carolina Nericcio, while Gothic bellydance employs a heavy fusion of many styles, some not even bellydance so, YES, I will happily and openly concede that Gothic Bellydance, in some ways, is not bellydance....at least not totally, in my opinion. BUT...this is not everyone's opinion and further, many gothic bellydancers aren't overtly concerned about "authenticity"....the name of this game is about being unique, to exude emotion, to exude style, to exude theatrics, dance and mosty to NOT fit in the box. So, any sort of huffing and puffing about it not being this or that is really in vain, because gothic bellydance means to be more than what already exists.
As to music: there tends to be a heavy mix of actual goth/punk music used, as well as ethnic and ancient beats. I have head dancers dance to music by Solace, Dead Can Dance, Souxsie and the Banshees, Type O Negative, Rob Zombie, Marilyn Manson, Vas....and yes, even older standards, Rai, or Shaabi (I am still waiting to see something done to Leylet Hob, though).....
And as to the small stereotypical comments about the goth subculture..I find it rather interesting that a group of people that have to fight off stereotyping of their genre of dance (i.e. bellydance is not stripping, etc) would be so quick to utilize stereotypes. Above all, realize that we are doing what we do because we LOVE dancing. We are not here to purposely hurt, belittle or make fun of anyone's sensibilities or dance styles. No one is here to purposely do anything against another, or wrong another or offend another. We are all here to dance what our hearts tell us....I find many people are too busy being RIGHT, pointing out that they are the end all authority.....I wonder if this somehow makes them feel better and, if so, what feels wrong with them at the moment that they need to do such things. But, again, that's my two cents. In this vein, I can say I love the beauty of bellydance, in all its forms, and respect all of its dancers...it's the unpleasantness of some attitudes that makes me grumpy.
Thanks,
Zan Asha
www.chovexani.com
Wow great Zan thank you for coming forth I thought I had to talk till I was blue in the face. I agree with everything you just said. Being from traditional dance style background and a lover of music. I too ventured into ethnic-Fusion styles. All my shows are different depending on the gig, theater or event.
I think it is wonderful all the different styles that have evolved from ME dance. We are all unique and percieve dance, art , music differently.
I think it is wonderful all the different styles that have evolved from ME dance. We are all unique and percieve dance, art , music differently.
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hmm meaningless? Anti-belly dance? no play Christian concepts? my dear you are quite confused. I suggest you listen to some Gothic songs . They are an eclectic blend of MEANING! passion, depth, romance, love, life art, very ethereal ,meaningful. I rest my case !! By the way I am a trained Ethnic dancer of 20 years, A real dancer can feel the RITMO and dance to anything that moves and grooves her. If it has drum beats I can shimmy!!!
I suggest you do research look, watch, listen and learn before you cast stones. What are we in the Dark ages?
In general, while Gothic might superficially seem to celebrate death and decay, I think it is more a sense of fatalism that drives Gothic writing, death and decay as the inevitable flip side of life and growth. Gothic shares with the Romantic Period an emphasis on humanity's relationship with nature, an anthropomorphism of natural forces, and the struggle for individual expression in an uncaring or mechanised world. Romantic music is most often characterized as subjective, experimental yet still melodic, and perhaps there are echoes of this in well constructed Gothic belly dance; it is subjective, open to interpretation, and can be wildly experimental, but it is still "melodic" in that it follows the form of its parent art, "traditional" belly dance
Very well said thank you for your thoughtful input.
Very well said thank you for your thoughtful input.
gwinity
New member
Thank you for the insight into the Gothic-bellydance world, Desideria, phoenixavathar, and ZanAsha. In many cases, I think the stereotypes of "mainstream" goths come from emokids moping around wearing black (egads, another stereotype!), so to gain insight into the dance in the Gothic subculture, and the passion and creativity behind it, is interesting, at least for me.
(By the way, phoenixavathar, I loved the clip of you that Moon linked to!)
(By the way, phoenixavathar, I loved the clip of you that Moon linked to!)
Desideria (love your website, by the way!), I can't say for sure, but I think that A'isha is speaking of the cultural background of bellydance and is not saying that gothic style is a lesser art form, just a different one.
A'isha- I hope it doesn't bother you that I came in and said this. I don't mean to speak for you, but just state what I think was meant. If I'm wrong, I'm sorry (and I'll stay out of it next time!).
A'isha- I hope it doesn't bother you that I came in and said this. I don't mean to speak for you, but just state what I think was meant. If I'm wrong, I'm sorry (and I'll stay out of it next time!
).
TribalDancer
New member
Quick answer:
Gothic is not tribal. Gothic can be cabaret, it can even be folky. It has more to do with the music/costume/dramatic presentation. As Tempest has clearly demonstrated, you can put on sparkly bedlah and still be gothic in your movement style, music, etc.
Gothic is not tribal. Gothic can be cabaret, it can even be folky. It has more to do with the music/costume/dramatic presentation. As Tempest has clearly demonstrated, you can put on sparkly bedlah and still be gothic in your movement style, music, etc.