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Thread: Zar

  1. #21
    V.I.P. Tarik Sultan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by masrawy View Post
    Dear Tarik,
    And your point after all this Bullshit is?! ...
    Best of Regards~Mahmoud
    My point is that as the Koran tells you, don't belittle or insult other people's beliefs, (especially when you don't really know anything about it), lest in their ignorance they insult your religion in return. You do not believe in this spiritual system and that is fine. However, you do not have the right to call it mumbo jumbo, especially since you do not know anything about it to speak. You don't even know the difference between a Zar ritual and an exorcism, so...

    I am a practitioner of a traditional earth religion which shares many similar aspects with the practice of which Zar is only one small part. I would like the same respect as such that you would like me to show you as a Muslim, without sarcasm or being condescending, nothing more. We do not need others to believe as we do, nor have we ever felt the need to convert anyone, nor do we believe that our way is the only way. We are live and let live. We believe in the same God you do. We worship him in our way, you in yours and that is fine. All we ask is to be shown the same respect and consideration that everyone else has and if you don't understand something about us, don't make shit up or act like just because your from XYZ place you know what we are about, because like I said before, and as you have demonstrated, You don't know jack diddly about us..... that's all...

    Hey, I said this in only two paragraphs! Damn I'm good!

  2. #22
    V.I.P. Tarik Sultan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by masrawy View Post
    Dear Makeda,
    I call it as I see it .. here is the quote from your first post you seem to hold it from the the hip so we don't anger the spirits, we were talking about " Zar " it has nothing to do with your Christian believe if you think it is hocus pocus that is your problem not mine.
    Best of Regards~Mahmoud
    Basically what she's saying is the same thing I am. Just because its not her personal belief she doesn't think it would be right to call it nonsense. She has had people make fun of her christianity because they think her beliefs are hocus pocus and she found that insulting. Therefore, she does not want to insult anyone else. She respects their right to worship and believe as they like, without using language that is disrespectful and insulting. A principle which as I pointed out before, is stated in the Koran. Basically the Koran says, DON'T MAKE FUN OF OTHER PEOPLES BELIEFS AND PRACTICES AND DON'T CALL THEM HOCUS POCUS. SHOW THEM THE SAME RESPECT YOU WOULD LIKE THEM TO SHOW YOU. GOT IT?!

    One paragraph. I think I'm on a roll!

  3. #23
    V.I.P. Lydia's Avatar
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    I think Zar has nothing to do with religion...that is the problem...it has to do with tradition....when you mix tradition with religion then you have a problem....i do agree that it is not correct to insult anybody,s religion....But i dont see Zar as a part of religion,its a part of tradition...
    Here where i live i see so much of this all kind of evil eye story,s jinn story,s...people that still visit other people that burn bagour under their clothes so the evil eye will be gone...ladys that collect sperm from their men and burn it with bagour to make sure the men will never cheat on her...you want to listen to more story,s like this ? i have plenty....again please think...i dont want to insult anybody,s believe ...i just ask you to think why ? why you think that some things are working because they believe in it...they want to believe its treu....I see so many things like that in the trible area from Oman or Maroco its a common practise...when i first came to the middle east it was even more common then now...please understand it has nothing to do with religion....its a tradional thing.....Dont get so wind up about it..i think you people just understand eachother wrong...i dont think Masrawi want to insult anybody,s religion......religion is separate from this whole thing...have a nice day everybody

  4. #24
    V.I.P. Caroline_afifi's Avatar
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    I have come to this topic very late and it is a very interesting discussion.

    Ok, here is how I understand things to add to the mix!

    As far as I am aware, it is Muslims who practice Zar.
    It is also wrapped in a kind of superstition.

    I hear that it is mostly in Beledi areas and fellahin were it is practised. So therefore it is seen as ignorant or uneducated.
    It is viewed as mumbo jumbo by many Egyptians who see it as a crazy primitive practice based on superstition (like we have walking under a ladder).

    Some people in Egypt believe Djinns live in the toilet and others think this is total nonsense.

    In terms of its effects, any repetative movement with spinning and shaking induces a form of auto intoxication, which in turn has a chemical effect on the brain.

    I have never done a zar as a ritual but I have studied the movements for the purpose of theatre. I usually end up with a tender neck and dizziness.
    As you can guess, I am not the sort of person who is into spiritual things but if it works for people then great. Whatever rocks your boat.

  5. #25
    V.I.P. jenc's Avatar
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    I once went into a trance when pretending to be a possesed nun for a youth Theatre production of The devils. It's really easy and not necessarily related to any religion, just susceptabilities of person concerned

  6. #26
    V.I.P. Caroline_afifi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenc View Post
    I once went into a trance when pretending to be a possesed nun for a youth Theatre production of The devils. It's really easy and not necessarily related to any religion, just susceptabilities of person concerned
    Trance and exorcism are different names but a zar with it's particular ritual is unique to that culture and in North Africa and MED it is only practised by Muslims, not Christians. Christians will have their own unique version of it.
    I think most cultures have some kind of ritual like this. They are tied with traditions and beliefs.

    Spiritualism is big business in the West. You can go shopping for it or have it as a hobby.

  7. #27
    V.I.P. masrawy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarik Sultan View Post
    My point is that as the Koran tells you, don't belittle or insult other people's beliefs, (especially when you don't really know anything about it), lest in their ignorance they insult your religion in return. You do not believe in this spiritual system and that is fine. However, you do not have the right to call it mumbo jumbo, especially since you do not know anything about it to speak. You don't even know the difference between a Zar ritual and an exorcism, so...

    I am a practitioner of a traditional earth religion which shares many similar aspects with the practice of which Zar is only one small part. I would like the same respect as such that you would like me to show you as a Muslim, without sarcasm or being condescending, nothing more. We do not need others to believe as we do, nor have we ever felt the need to convert anyone, nor do we believe that our way is the only way. We are live and let live. We believe in the same God you do. We worship him in our way, you in yours and that is fine. All we ask is to be shown the same respect and consideration that everyone else has and if you don't understand something about us, don't make shit up or act like just because your from XYZ place you know what we are about, because like I said before, and as you have demonstrated, You don't know jack diddly about us..... that's all...

    Hey, I said this in only two paragraphs! Damn I'm good!
    Hello Tarik,
    I think you should practice what you preach ... I don't know if you truly believe the racist crap you posted before or I just ticked you off . Congratulation for new improved to the point post.
    Deepest Regards~Mahmoud

  8. #28
    V.I.P. Caroline_afifi's Avatar
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    Hey Mahmoud and Tarik..
    when are you two going to meet up for this coffee in Journal Square?

  9. #29
    V.I.P. masrawy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caroline_afifi View Post
    Hey Mahmoud and Tarik..
    when are you two going to meet up for this coffee in Journal Square?
    Will need a Chaperon ... any volunteer

  10. #30
    V.I.P. Caroline_afifi's Avatar
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    ME!!

    I would really like to meet you both.

    I think we could really have a good chat and a few laughs

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